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Thread: Live online meeting

  1. #81
    Looking forward to seeing some of BWB members later!


  2. #82
    I really enjoyed our chat, with many thanks to Kathy, Phil, Element, Mike and Woodscooter.

  3. #83
    Technical Administrator woodscooter's Avatar
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    That was a good meeting and it went well! Thanks to everyone who took part.

    We will not be holding an online meeting for the next two weeks. Our next live meeting is scheduled for Saturday 29th May. It will be at the same time as always, and I'll put up a reminder posting here nearer to the day.

    In the time before the next online meeting, I would urge you to start a new topic, or post in an existing one, in any of the many Buddhist Discussion forums on this website. Please do.

  4. #84
    Technical Administrator woodscooter's Avatar
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    The next online meeting will be on Saturday 29th May.

    The meeting will be at:

    1pm PDT
    3pm CDT
    4pm EDT
    5pm ADT
    9pm BST
    10pm CEST
    1.30am IST
    6am AEST

    The link to the online chat session remains the same.

    Logged-in members can see the link [here]

    Please post your suggestions for topics to discuss at this, and following meetings.

  5. #85
    Moderator justusryans's Avatar
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    I have to do some traveling on Saturday but will try to make it back in time. Looking forward to it!

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by woodscooter View Post
    The next online meeting will be on Saturday 29th May.

    Please post your suggestions for topics to discuss at this, and following meetings.



    Looking forward to hearing some ideas for new topics from everyone....or indeed anyone!



  7. #87
    I've had a suggestion that we discuss "The Four Noble Truths" this evening, so we'll do that.

    Looking forward to the meeting.

  8. #88
    Link I mentioned in the meeting : (contains "Dependent Origination the Source Code")


    https://www.abhayagiri.org/media/boo...a_nutshell.pdf

  9. #89
    Global Moderator Element's Avatar
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    One topic that was mentioned today by Aloka was the definition of "jati" found in MN 141, as follows:
    And, Venerables, what is birth? The birth, appearance, descent, or production of those beings amidst a group of beings; the manifestation of the aggregates; the acquisition of the sense-bases – Venerables, this is called ‘birth.’

    https://suttacentral.net/mn141/en/suddhaso

    “And what, bhikkhus, is birth? The birth of the various beings into the various orders of beings, their being born, descent, production, the manifestation of the aggregates, the obtaining of the sense bases. This is called birth.

    https://suttacentral.net/sn12.2/en/bodhi
    I suggested this means the production of various classifications of beings based on how the aggregates are used/manifest and based on what sense objects are sought & acquired, as described in MN 98:
    The differences between humans
    are not defined by their [physical] birth.

    Not by hair nor by head,
    not by ear nor by eye,
    not by mouth nor by nose,
    not by lips nor by eyebrow,

    not by shoulder nor by neck,
    not by belly nor by back,
    not by buttocks nor by breast,
    not by genitals nor by groin,

    not by hands nor by feet,
    not by fingers nor by nails,
    not by knees nor by thighs,
    not by color nor by voice:
    none of these are defined by birth
    as it is for other species.

    In individual human bodies
    you can’t find such distinctions.
    The distinctions among humans
    are spoken of by convention
    .

    Anyone among humans
    who lives off keeping cattle:
    know them, Vāseṭṭha,
    as a farmer, not a brahmin.

    Anyone among humans
    who lives off various professions:
    know them, Vāseṭṭha,
    as a professional, not a brahmin.

    Anyone among humans
    who lives off trade:
    know them, Vāseṭṭha,
    as a trader, not a brahmin.

    Anyone among humans
    who lives off serving others:
    know them, Vāseṭṭha,
    as an employee, not a brahmin.

    Anyone among humans
    who lives off stealing:
    know them, Vāseṭṭha,
    as a bandit, not a brahmin.

    Anyone among humans
    who lives off archery:
    know them, Vāseṭṭha,
    as a soldier, not a brahmin.

    Anyone among humans
    who lives off priesthood:
    know them, Vāseṭṭha,
    as a sacrificer, not a brahmin.

    Anyone among humans
    who taxes village and nation,
    know them, Vāseṭṭha,
    as a ruler, not a brahmin.

    I don’t call someone a brahmin
    after the mother or womb they came from
    .
    If they still have attachments,
    they’re just someone who says ‘sir’.
    One with nothing, never grasping:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Having cut off all fetters
    they have no anxiety.
    They’ve got over clinging, and are detached:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They’ve cut the strap and harness,
    the reins and bridle too,
    with cross-bar lifted, they’re awakened:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Abuse, killing, caging:
    they endure these without anger.
    Patience is their powerful army:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Not irritable or stuck up,
    dutiful in precepts and observances,
    tamed, bearing their final body:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Like rain off a lotus leaf,
    like a mustard seed off the point of a pin,
    sensual pleasures slide off them:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They understand for themselves
    in this life the end of suffering;
    with burden put down, detached:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Deep in wisdom, intelligent,
    expert in the variety of paths;
    arrived at the highest goal:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Socializing with neither
    householders nor the homeless.
    A migrant without a shelter, few in wishes:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They’ve laid aside the rod
    against creatures firm and frail;
    not killing or causing others to kill:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Not fighting among those who fight,
    they’re extinguished among those who’ve taken up arms.
    Not grasping among those who grasp:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They’ve discarded greed and hate,
    along with conceit and contempt,
    like a mustard seed off the point of a pin:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    The words they utter
    are sweet, informative, and true,
    and don’t offend anyone:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They don’t steal anything in the world,
    long or short,
    fine or coarse, beautiful or ugly:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They have no hope
    for this world or the next;
    with no need for hope, detached:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They have no clinging,
    knowledge has freed them of indecision,
    they’ve arrived at the culmination of the deathless:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They’ve escaped clinging
    to both good and bad deeds;
    sorrowless, stainless, pure:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Pure as the spotless moon,
    clear and undisturbed,
    they’ve ended desire to be reborn:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They’ve got past this grueling swamp
    of delusion, transmigration.
    They’ve crossed over to the far shore,
    stilled and free of indecision.
    They’re extinguished by not grasping:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They’ve given up sensual stimulations,
    and have gone forth from lay life;
    they’ve ended rebirth in the sensual realm:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They’ve given up craving,
    and have gone forth from lay life;
    they’ve ended craving to be reborn:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They’ve given up human bonds,
    and gone beyond heavenly bonds;
    detached from all attachments:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Giving up discontent and desire,
    they’re cooled and free of attachments;
    a hero, master of the whole world:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They know the passing away
    and rebirth of all beings;
    unattached, holy, awakened:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Gods, fairies, and humans
    don’t know their destiny;
    the perfected ones with defilements ended:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They have nothing before or after,
    or even in between;
    one with nothing, never grasping:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    Leader of the herd, excellent hero,
    great hermit and victor;
    unstirred, washed, awakened:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    They know their past lives,
    and see heaven and places of loss,
    and have attained the end of rebirth:
    that’s who I call a brahmin.

    For name and clan are assigned
    as mere convention in the world.
    Arising by mutual agreement,
    they’re assigned to each individual.


    For a long time this misconception
    has prejudiced those who don’t understand.
    Ignorant, they declare
    that one is a brahmin by birth.

    You’re not a brahmin by birth,
    nor by birth a non-brahmin.
    You’re a brahmin by your deeds,
    and by deeds a non-brahmin.

    You’re a farmer by your deeds,
    by deeds you’re a professional;
    you’re a trader by your deeds,
    by deeds are you an employee;

    you’re a bandit by your deeds,
    by deeds you’re a soldier;
    you’re a sacrificer by your deeds,
    by deeds you’re a ruler.

    In this way the astute regard deeds
    in accord with truth.
    Seeing dependent origination,
    they’re expert in deeds and their results
    .

    https://suttacentral.net/mn98/en/sujato
    I mentioned how in MN 86, when Angulimala became a monk, this is called a "noble birth":

    ‘yatohaṁ, bhagini, ariyāya jātiyā jāto, nābhijānāmi sañcicca pāṇaṁ jīvitā voropetā, tena saccena sotthi te hotu, sotthi gabbhassā’”ti


    ‘Ever since I was born in the noble birth, sister, I don’t recall having intentionally taken the life of a living creature. By this truth, may both you and your baby be safe.’

    https://suttacentral.net/mn86/en/sujato

  10. #90
    Global Moderator Element's Avatar
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    In response to and in agreement with Kathy's statement on the 1st and 2nd noble truths, I also mentioned today how the 2nd noble truth is defined in AN 3.61 as the whole of dependent origination, therefore includes the arising of suffering itself.

    "And what is the noble truth of the origination of stress?

    "From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging. From clinging as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then old age & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

    "This is called the noble truth of the origination of stress.

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....061.than.html
    Last edited by Element; 30 May 21 at 08:22.

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