Thread: Corrupted

  1. #1


    This is Sutta Nipata 4.3 - translated from the Pali by Bhikkhu Thanissaro

    . Corrupted

    There are some who dispute
    corrupted at heart,
    and those who dispute
    their hearts set on truth,
    but a sage doesn't enter
    a dispute that's arisen,
    which is why he is
    nowhere constrained.

    Now, how would one
    led on by desire,
    entrenched in his likes,
    forming his own conclusions,
    overcome his own views?
    He'd dispute in line
    with the way that he knows.

    Whoever boasts to others, unasked,
    of his practices, precepts,
    is, say the skilled,
    ignoble by nature --
    he who speaks of himself
    of his own accord.

    But a monk at peace,
    fully unbound in himself,
    who doesn't boast of his precepts
    -- "That's how I am" --
    he, say the skilled,
    is noble by nature --
    he with no vanity
    with regard to the world.

    One whose doctrines aren't clean --
    fabricated, formed, given preference
    when he sees it to his own advantage --
    relies on a peace
    on what can be shaken.

    Because entrenchments in views
    aren't easily overcome
    when considering what's grasped
    among doctrines,
    that's why
    a person embraces or rejects a doctrine --
    in light of these very

    Now, one who is cleansed
    has no preconceived view
    about states of becoming
    or not-
    anywhere in the world.
    Having abandoned conceit and illusion,
    by what means would he go?
    He isn't involved.

    For one who's involved
    gets into disputes
    over doctrines,
    but how -- in connection with what --
    would you argue
    with one uninvolved?
    He has nothing
    embraced or rejected,
    has sloughed off every view
    right here -- every one.

    Any comments?

  2. #2
    Forums Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    On one level, it's a very nice Sutta saying that if you have made enough progress, then you have moved beyond doctrinal arguments, which are only a raft, after all. Once you've crossed the river, you have no need of the raft any more. On another level it could be seen as saying that if you have reached a certain level then you have no right to say anything. You can't be that advanced if you still have an opinion on doctrinal issues. Keep quiet or we'll call you out.

  3. #3
    Moderator justusryans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Buckingham, Virginia
    Very good philg, I thought that was a well thought out post. Just about what I was going to say but much better.

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