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Thread: Two questions about matters of fact

  1. #1
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    Two questions about matters of fact

    Hello, and metta to all!

    For a long time, I have been trying to find two scriptures that, ostensibly, quote the words of the Buddha. What the implications of these scriptures may be for others are not my concern at the moment — I should just like to find out where they may be found, and — if anyone is knowledgeable enough to be able to go to them — to see a paste-in of the exact words of these two scriptures.

    The first one I enquire about was quoted in a book by Nolan Pliny Jacobson, called: Buddhism, the Religion of Analysis. I read it many years ago, and, at the time, did not think the quotation was important enough to keep a note of. Since then, I have re-borrowed the book from our public library, and searched carefully for the quotation. However, I failed to find it. (In spite of this failure, I still believe that the scripture was indeed quoted in the book named above.) Its source was given as: Nikaya something-or-other — I only remember the one word. The words that were quoted were as follows: "I do not teach a doctrine of karma because karma requires justice, and justice is not it."

    I don't remember where I saw the other scripture that I should like to re-read. However, in it, the Buddha is made to mention the "piercing and pricking pains" that anyone that wishes to dive deep within must or will experience.

    I should be very grateful if someone can and will do me the kindness of supplying the exact words of the two scriptures above; also, of supplying the exact source of them.

    With thanks in hopeful anticipation,
    Ig.

  2. #2
    Administrator Aloka's Avatar
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    Hi Ig,

    Yes, the Jacobson book was written a long time ago, in 1966. I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with the two quotes you mention. There are a lot of suttas in the Pali Canon Nikayas and many of them weren't translated by Pali scholars until the 1990's.

    Maybe someone else here might be able to help. Otherwise I suggest you try putting words or phrases into the search box at the Access to Insight website for suttas:

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/

    and do the same at the Sutta Central website:

    https://suttacentral.net/introduction

    Kind regards,

    Aloka

    PS

    Beware of fake Buddha quotes, especially on the internet!

    https://fakebuddhaquotes.com/all-fake-buddha-quotes/

  3. #3
    Forums Member Element's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ignoramus View Post
    "I do not teach a doctrine of karma because karma requires justice, and justice is not it."
    It appears unlikely the above is found in any Nikaya. The Buddha was not primarily concerned with "justice" but was concerned with how kamma affects the individual performing the kamma.

    This said, there are teachings about kamma & justice, such as:

    137. He who inflicts violence on those who are unarmed, and offends those who are inoffensive, will soon come upon one of these ten states:

    138-140 Sharp pain, or disaster, bodily injury, serious illness, or derangement of mind, trouble from the government, or grave charges, loss of relatives, or loss of wealth, or houses destroyed by ravaging fire; upon dissolution of the body that ignorant man is born in hell.

    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi...p.10.budd.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Ignoramus View Post
    "piercing and pricking pains"
    Again, sounds alien to the Buddha. While painful feelings can be experienced in meditation, the predominant feelings described in the scriptures related to deep meditation are pleasant feelings.

    Regards

  4. #4
    Administrator Aloka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Element
    It appears unlikely the above is found in any Nikaya. The Buddha was not primarily concerned with "justice" but was concerned with how kamma affects the individual performing the kamma.

    This said, there are teachings about kamma & justice, such as: .......etc

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the advice, Aloka. I shall do as you suggest.
    Ig.

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