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Thread: MN13: Mahadukkhakkhandha Sutta

  1. #11
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    Esho,
    In order to free ourselves of the feelings and experiences that are impermanent, is it possible that we need to get a really good look at them and see them for what they are?

    In my meditative experiences the guru has always said that when these "thoughts and feelings arise" we should either just bring our focus back to the present, or, in some cases, the guru will suggest looking at these thoughts to see the emptiness and impermanence behind them.

    As I have known people that simply start out, from the very beginning of their practices, with the idea that there is no "I" and their feelings/experiences do not exist, it is my opinion that they have not really and truly recognized how deeply ingrained these feelings and experiences are within us. In other words, I don't think one can make a cheap denial of the senses and how they operate. -------- And I would also suggest that the Janas that go beyond bliss and rapture have a definite commitment to equanimity.

    There doesn't seem to be a commitment on the part of the Janas to instill more feeling in us. It seems to be more a matter of just bringing out what we already have and taking a look at it. The bliss and rapture seem to be things that we already have, not things that we are creating in the Janas.

    --------------- Just my thoughts on the matter. ------ And it may also be possible that pure Vipassana people take all of these things into account. I just don't know. I suppose it is possible that a good Vipassana practice actually deals with some of things that are involved in Jana practice. ----- A lot of truly great practitioners have wrestled with this enormous issue and I have great respect for all of them. I have the definite belief that many of these guys have thought all of this through many levels beyond what my crude practice attempts to do. I'm just doing my best from where I am right now.


    jasweet
    Last edited by Aloka; 12 Mar 19 at 06:50. Reason: To create spaces in block of text.

  2. #12
    Forums Member justusryans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esho

    I have listened to the talk and it confirms what I understood. The jhanas are experiences of the greatest gratification but they have a danger; they are impermanent and subject to suffering. So my question is the same: Why are jhanas so important in the nikayas?



    Hits it on the button... so to speak. Nothing is permanent, eventually we must move past the jhanas. They are hindrances to enlightenment.
    If we use them as markers to establish our own progress on the way. You should look at them, recognize them for what they are are and set them back down and move on from them.

    To be continually going there during your meditation is not what our ultimate goal/no goal should be. It’s easy to get stuck there or believe you have found nibbana when what we have we have found is another illusion.



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