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Thread: The first Noble Truth

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodscooter View Post
    You have made a mistake and have paraphrased and quoted the words of Ajahn Amaro from #12, which were not attributed to Ajahn Sumedho.
    Yes, of course. Thank you for highlighting that, it was very sloppy of me. As I say, I think this consciousness is in need of a good rest! Case in point.

  2. #22
    Technical Administrator woodscooter's Avatar
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    Returning to my original post, the OP, how is ageing dukka?

    It must be clear that ageing along with birth and death are inevitable. They are a part of being human and living a life. In living we have a brain, a mind, consciousness -call it what you will.

    The process of ageing and experiencing degrees of sickness with the prospect of death at the end of the road is coming to us all. Just thinking about these things can so easily give rise to thoughts of wishing it were not so, and there's the dukkha.

    The unavoidable nature of ageing gives rise to dukkha, so I now think it's splitting hairs to separate the process from the thought. The stress or suffering occurs in the mind, but because the suffering of ageing is so attached to ageing itself, it's safe to merge them into a single concept.

  3. #23
    Forums Member Olderon's Avatar
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    Hi, woodscooter.

    Death may be inevitable, but immortality has always been the human goal. And thanks to advances in human genetics we are getting closer to that result. Unfortunately, from the perspective of "betterment of the species" the process of evolution, this is not necessarily a good thing. It turns out that those creatures that speciate (only mate with their own kind), have offspring and die under the influences of their current environments get better and better due to changing environmental conditions. However this does not mean that attachment on the part of those who don't want to die does not cause suffering. Clinging to life and the hope of immortality seems to be a universal characteristic of all living organisms. And, as Buddha clearly stated: "Clinging causes dukkha."

    Genetic science and interestingly computer modeling in robotics has discovered that evolved beings, those that survive in a changing, more challenging environment get better and better generation over generation over generation. The dead, those that cannot survive in the current environment are not the better representatives of their species, otherwise they wouldn't have been killed off by the current environmental conditions. The dead will not get to reproduce and thereby improve their species. Only the survivors, those that thrive under current environmental conditions or circumstances, get to reproduce and provide the next generation of their species.

    So, what is the point of striving for immortality. Death helps the species improve relative to the demands of the current environmental conditions.

    Again, knowing this fact does not mean that the living do not cling to life. This factor seems to be inculcated in all life. But, as you say, all life, even those that achieve immortality will eventually result in extinction of their species.

    Interesting?
    Last edited by Olderon; 16 Apr 18 at 13:33.

  4. #24
    Forums Member Thinker's Avatar
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    “Death may be inevitable, but immortality has always been the human goal”.

    The goal of youth perhaps? But that perception may change?.

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