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Thread: Student-Teacher relationships

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by chownah

    Brainwashing is a strong term
    Quote Originally Posted by Aloka
    Not really, have you ever heard of the terms " psychological abuse" and "religious abuse"?
    Quote Originally Posted by chownah
    Indeed really. The first link explains....[ snip ]

    Definition of "brainwash" (verb) from the Oxford dictionary:


    to force somebody to accept your ideas or beliefs, for example by repeating the same thing many times, or by preventing the person from thinking clearly.

    * brainwash somebody. The group is accused of brainwashing its young members.

    *brainwash somebody into doing something. Women have been brainwashed into thinking that they must go out to work in order to fulfil themselves.

    *They were brainwashed into believing that their leader was all-powerful.


    http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionarie...lish/brainwash


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chownah View Post
    .......what is actually described as brainwashing requires some pretty harsh interactions
    .......
    chownah
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing

    chownah

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by chownah
    what is actually described as brainwashing requires some pretty harsh interactions.....
    Have you actually read all the quoted information and listened to what was said in the videos which have been posted in this topic, chownah ?

  4. #24
    Forums Member daverupa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisehull View Post
    But to blame sexually active WOMEN completely takes away from the whole point. The teachers are in the power position, have taken vows, and are the ones responsible for not having sex with their students, regardless of how willing the students may be. They are the ones who should be steadfast no matter the situation. And there are many who sexually abuse their students, not all of whom are women. The present Kalu Rinpoche is a case in point. You seem to be blaming the victim, Element!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aloka View Post
    Have you actually read all the quoted information and listened to what was said in the videos which have been posted in this topic, chownah ?
    Indeed. Do your research, kids.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abusive_power_and_control

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by daverupa View Post
    Thanks for bringing that link.

    I searched this wikipedia article and found that it does not even mention "brainwashing". However, this wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwashing) is all about "brainwashing". I don't think that what is described in the "brainwashing" article is what usually happens in the context of our discussion of teacher abuse but I could be wrong.

    I am not going to take my time reading alot of articles and watching alot of videos because I don't think evidence of this will be found there.

    I rely on my friends here to direct me to where it claims that the brainwashing method described in the wiki article is described if in fact it is described there. My friends have read these articles and watched these videos already and should be able to very easily show me where I can find what supports their assertions...or even bring excerpts showing me. To my friends who do this I offer my warmest "thank you very much".

    chownah

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by chownah
    My friends have read these articles and watched these videos already and should be able to very easily show me where I can find what supports their assertions...or even bring excerpts showing me.
    chownah, I find it absolutely astonishing that potentially you can spend plenty of time arguing in this topic against people who unlike yourself have had actual experience of the TB tradition other than on the internet, - yet you can't even be bothered to read a few very short quotes which have been offered in this thread, and, in the case of the Kalu Rinpoche video (all of which is relevant to the topic), listen for about 9 minutes of your time!

    Plus you keep going off at tangents from the main discussion, haggling about the use of a particular word and quoting Wikipedia texts - and expect others to read those!


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aloka View Post
    chownah, I find it absolutely astonishing that potentially you can spend plenty of time arguing in this topic against people who unlike yourself have had actual experience of the TB tradition other than on the internet, - yet you can't even be bothered to read a few very short quotes, and, in the case of the Kalu Rinpoche video (all of which is relevant to the topic), listen for about 9 minutes of your time!

    Plus you keep going off at tangents from the main discussion with wikipedia articles - and expect others to read those!

    I took your advice and watched the video. It was a complete waste of time. It contained nothing to substantiate the view that brainwashing (as explained in the wikipedia article "brainwashing" or in the other two links I provided earlier) was used......really it doesn't.

    My comments have all been on topic. Lisehull said:
    Thirdly, in the case of Chogyam Trungpa, and perhaps others, I believe he created a cult, and was brainwashing his students.
    Then I questioned whether "brainwashing" was an appropriate term:
    Brainwashing is a strong term and from what I gather what is actually described as brainwashing requires some pretty harsh interactions. Perhaps what you describe as "brainwashing" might be described as "grooming".
    And then you and I have discussed what "brainwashing" might mean....and....now you offer a video:
    in the case of the Kalu Rinpoche video (all of which is relevant), listen for about 9 minutes of your time!
    which I have watched and found to be not relevant to the discussion of what "brainwashing" specifically entails.

    I really just wanted to ask lisehull what her views were on this. I did not intend to get into a long quibble with you about this.

    Having said that and having come this far I am still open to finding any evidence that "brainwashing" as described in the links i have mentioned was used in a buddhist context. I see alot of abusive power and control as described in daverupa's great link and we should use our critical thinking skills in our examination of different buddhist contexts to see if abusive power and control are playing a part (seems obvious that sometimes it does).

    chownah

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by chownah
    I took your advice and watched the video. It was a complete waste of time. It contained nothing to substantiate the view that brainwashing (as explained in the wikipedia article "brainwashing" or in the other two links I provided earlier) was used
    I don't think I actually say the Kalu Rinpoche video was connected to "brainwashing" chownah.

    Its an example of abuse ....and I mentioned it because you appeared to be unwilling to read or listen to any of the resources previously provided which are relevant to this topic in general, which is about teacher- pupil relationships, not a specific subject of "brainwashing".

    Quote Originally Posted by chownah
    I really just wanted to ask lisehull what her views were on this. I did not intend to get into a long quibble with you about this.

    Sure, but she's not online at the moment, so others are free to contribute to the topic in the meantime .

    If you want a private discussion there's a PM system.


  9. #29
    Technical Administrator woodscooter's Avatar
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    I've re-read the article by Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, and it's really about being a Buddhist and leading an ethical life.

    There's obviously a connection between ethics and the student-teacher relationship. Speaking for myself, I've found some inspiring individuals whom I would call my 'teachers', not all of them Buddhist monastics or lamas.

    The common thread is that they are all individuals leading an ethical life, fitting my definition of ethical for sure.

    I find it hard enough to live up to my own standards of good behaviour much of the time. I catch myself slipping too often. It's easy for any of us to point the finger of blame towards a few Buddhist teachers who don't walk the talk, and rightly so, they should be open to public criticism.

    But I applaud the majority of teachers in Buddhist traditions, not only the Mahayana ones, who conscientiously guide their students, and do it with love, patience and in good humour.

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