Thread: Individuality, Nonduality, Anatta, Nirvana

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    Forums Member CedarTree's Avatar
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    Individuality, Nonduality, Anatta, Nirvana

    Imagine I am sitting at Gyobutsuji Zen Monastery in America, or Wat Pah Nanachat (Ajahn Chah Monastery) in Thailand, or Panditărăma (Sayadaw U Pandita-Mahasi Sayadaw Center) in Burma, or at some 3-year silent retreat in the tradition of Chögyal Namkhai Norbu or Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

    A lot drops off (Anatta), Nonduality is experienced, with wisdom one awakens (Nirvana).

    There is a dynamic with multiplicity (Individuals), Emptiness, Awareness, Etc.

    How is awakening related to the individual?

    This is to be open to all traditions and view points. There may be members with not as much formal knowledge as others that yet have diamond tidbits of wisdom.

    Let us be encouraging and delve into what each other presents with a lot of respect so this discussion can draw out important understandings and content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CedarTree View Post

    How is awakening related to the individual?
    Hi CedarTree

    I guess from my viewpoint, by the time you have reached the point you indicate, you will have realised that there is no individual as such.

    Instead you will have realised that what you have taken to be an individual is actually made up of all the past experiences, coming into contact with present moment, and creating the next moment through action dictated by that past experience.

    This is a very dynamic situation somewhat like surfing a wave.

    Way before you get as deep as your scenario would be, you would have understood, through your vipassana practice, that far from an individual, fixed entity, you are driven by more of a belligerent committee, constantly at odds with each other and pushing for supremacy.

    So in answer to your question "How is awakening related to the individual," it isn't, as the concept of an individual never existed.

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    Forums Member CedarTree's Avatar
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    Another poster from a different forum said this:

    Awakening is clearly something that happens to a living being, altering their perspective or revealing fundamental truths, however you wish to express it, and, while those fundamental truths might be expressed in ways that involve words like "empty of a self", still, it is the sensations that previously made up both self and other that are revealed in some very vivid, clear, immediate, transformative way.

    Thus, when they awaken, from their vantage pointless vantage point, the whole field of their unique experience is awakened, but, as basically everyone who has awakened and asked other people if their awakening suddenly awakened everyone else, the answer is "no".

    So, while it can't really quite be called an "individual thing", still, it clearly happens to an individual, or a unique sense field, or however you wish to put it. When the Buddha awakened, for example, he still clearly noticed that his awakening didn't awaken everyone, as everyone else also noticed.

    I am curious to know the background to your question and what practical value you hope the discussion will have for yourself as well as others. Thoughts?
    I think there is something about "Individualism" and "Specificity" that sometimes we rush over or blank on because of our singular focus on Anatta. I think there is something about understanding the dynamic and how things are about this.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CedarTree View Post
    Another poster from a different forum said this:
    Ah, that would be Daniel Ingram, self - appointed Arahant, at one of several forums where I've noticed that you post the same topics:


    https://www.dharmaoverground.org/dis...essage/6537999



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    Forums Member CedarTree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aloka View Post
    Ah, that would be Daniel Ingram, self - appointed Arahant, at one of several forums where I've noticed that you post the same topics:


    https://www.dharmaoverground.org/dis...essage/6537999


    Lol I kept the name private for a reason. I didn't want the "controversy" surrounding the individual to cloud the discussion. He did however catch onto something about individualism that I think helps make this abstract open question still abstract but focused a bit

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    Quote Originally Posted by CedarTree View Post
    Lol I kept the name private for a reason. I didn't want the "controversy" surrounding the individual to cloud the discussion. He did however catch onto something about individualism that I think helps make this abstract open question still abstract but focused a bit
    Yeah, I detected a bit of ad hominum in aloka's post.

    Even fools can from time to time say things that are revealing of the truth. If one dismisses out of hand everything that a fool says one might from time to time dismiss the truth....or even perhaps dismiss a chance to see what is true and what is not. To extract this value from a fool's assertions one must suspend disbelief and consider the assertion on its own merit and evaluate it with your critical thinking skills (which would of course rule out the cognitive bias of ad hominum).
    chownah

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CedarTree
    Lol I kept the name private for a reason.
    Hi CedarTree,

    URL links (or author, title, and page number in the case of a book) are required for any quotes posted in the forums here. (See Code of Conduct.) A reason for you deciding not to do this was not provided.


    Quote Originally Posted by chownah
    Yeah, I detected a bit of ad hominum in aloka's post.
    That's interesting chownah, considering that there's a 51 page topic at DW about Ingram and his claims.

    https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=5569&start=120

    It might also be worth noting that your own comment is "Ad hominem" - so please take a few moments to read Code of Conduct number 3c in connection with the provision of URL links or other source details for any quotes posted on this website (re#3) .... and number 12a regarding personal remarks posted on the forums here about other members of this group, or about the website management team.

    (Our Code of Conduct is agreed to by all members when they register with the group.)


    Many thanks

  8. #8
    Forums Member CedarTree's Avatar
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    At a few forums the subject has crystalized in trying to understand "Individual" vantage point and how that relates to Anatta. Both now and how that dynamic may stay the same or change with awakening.

    Lets see if BWB can further the wisdom

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