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Thread: Early Buddhism and The Heart Sutra

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by manoPG View Post
    The early stock phrases on suññata clearly form the basis for all prajnaparamita literature.
    The Sunna Sutta seems relevant here:

    "It is said that the world is empty, the world is empty, lord. In what respect is it said that the world is empty?"
    "Insofar as it is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self: Thus it is said, Ananda, that the world is empty. And what is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self? The eye is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Forms... Eye-consciousness... Eye-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self...."


    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....085.than.html

  2. #12
    Forums Member manoPG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whippet View Post
    The Sunna Sutta seems relevant here:

    "It is said that the world is empty, the world is empty, lord. In what respect is it said that the world is empty?"
    "Insofar as it is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self: Thus it is said, Ananda, that the world is empty. And what is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self? The eye is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Forms... Eye-consciousness... Eye-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self...."


    https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....085.than.html
    Very nice

  3. #13
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    Aloka,

    I'm sorry I am taking so long to get back to you in regard to my opinion of Santikaro's article. For some reason I have been confused in using this system and I tend to get lost.

    I think Santikaro's article is excellent, and I agree with it wholeheartedly. I am very much in support of Buddhayana rather than the old classifications that stir up rivalry and distrust. But if we were to go looking for something to argue about, we might discuss how Avolekitesvara (Chenreqig) is known as the Bodhisattva of Compassion. I have always wondered how he and his concept of compassion can be considered "empty". Compassion seems to be a "feeling", does it not? While I believe that it is a very deep concept that transcends individuality and bridges the gaps between beings, I still have trouble reconciling compassion (karuna) with emptiness. I have never had anyone explain to me how an emotion, which compassion certainly is in our normal parlance, can be empty. Perhaps I can see that it has no inherent characteristics that qualify as permanence. But on the other hand it seems to be rooted in something that is real and definite. If it isn't real, definite, and permanent, how does it get connected with a Bodhisattva. Is the Bodhisattva something impermanent? That too would be hard for me to fathom, much less explain.

    But like I have previously said, I have no trouble with these petty little concerns. I have now had enough experience with the process of compassion and insight/emptiness that I truly believe they go together very well. It is only when I get involved in discussions that attempt to use "logic" and "consistency" that I get a little awkward in my opinions. Somehow I feel very strongly that compassion and emptiness are not enemies at all. Compassion seems to be a view, like Right Emotion and other things, but as I have said previously, I don't think the label of "view" is really the kind of view the masters have warned us about.

    jasweet

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasweet
    I'm sorry I am taking so long to get back to you in regard to my opinion of Santikaro's article. For some reason I have been confused in using this system and I tend to get lost.
    No problem, Jasweet.

    If you are having problems with the system, please feel free to ask questions in our Technical Help forum, or send a PM to Woodscooter for assistance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasweet

    But if we were to go looking for something to argue about, we might discuss how Avolekitesvara (Chenreqig) is known as the Bodhisattva of Compassion. I have always wondered how he and his concept of compassion can be considered "empty"
    As this is our Early Buddhism Forum and the topic is about Santikaro's article rather than about the origins of the Mahayana/Vajrayana deity Chenrezi, I think its probably best to leave that issue at the following point in his essay:

    Quote Originally Posted by Santikaro

    Of course, Early Buddhism isn't going to set Avalokitesvara above the Venerable Sariputta, so that preface need not be discussed here, it's polemical character notwithstanding. And the concluding mantra is not typical of Early Buddhism, either.
    Also, if you check our Mahayana forum you'll be able to find two or more topics about the Heart Sutra there, which might be of interest.


    Kind regards,

    Aloka

  5. #15
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    Aloka,
    I'm sorry that I have been so slow in getting back to you after you expressed a gently concern about my comments about Santikaro's article. Let me say very clearly that I would feel very bad if I were to offend anybody, or the website in general. And I also understand that my comments might have struck most people as "meta" rather than concise. Perhaps a bit too rambling. I promise to focus a little better in the future.
    I realize that running a website like this is rather difficult in view of the ongoing potential for sectarianism and bitterness. I really and truly do not want to contribute to that in any way. ------- And if I may politely make an additional comment in regard to my reply about Santikaro's article, I would like to say that there were a lot of issues raised in the article and it was hard for me to limit my comments. But in the future I will do a better job.
    JASWEET

  6. #16
    No problem, jasweet. Good to see you again.


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