Thread: Dependent Origination(Paticca-Samuppada)

  1. #1

    Dependent Origination(Paticca-Samuppada)

    This is a 24 minute talk from Ajahn Amaro about Dependent Origination.

    Comments after listening to what he said, are welcome.






  2. #2
    Forums Member andyrobyn's Avatar
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    Very interesting ... I would like to return and comment

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    It reminds me of something Ajahn Sumedho said



    In Ajahn Buddhadasa's book on Dependent Origination, he emphasises that his approach has been on the paticcasamuppada as working in the moment rather than in terms of past present and future lives. When you contemplate, when you practise, you realise that that is the only way it could ever be. This is because we are working with the mind itself. Even when we are considering the birth of a human body, we are not commenting on the birth of our own bodies, but recognising mentally that these bodies were born. Then, in reflection we are noting that mental consciousness arises and ceases. So that whole sequence of Dependent Origination arises and ceases in a moment. The arising and the cessation from avijja is momentary, it is not a kind of permanent avijja. It would be a mistaken view to assume that everything began with avijja and sometime in the future it would all cease.

    Avijja means in this sense 'not understanding the Four Noble Truths'. When there is understanding of Suffering, Origin, Cessation and Path, then things are no longer affected by avijja. When we see with vijja then the perceptions are conventional reality, no longer 'me' and 'mine.' For example, when there is vijja then I can say 'I am Ajahn Sumedho' - that is a conventional reality, still a perception but it is no longer viewed from avijja, it's merely a convention we use. There's nothing more to it than that. It is as it is.

    When we get to cessation of ignorance then at that moment all the rest of the sequence ceases. It is not like one ceases then another ceases. When there is vijja then the suffering ceases. In any moment when there is true mindfulness and wisdom there is no suffering. The suffering has ceased. Now when you contemplate the cessation of desire, cessation of grasping (upadana), there is the cessation of becoming, cessation of rebirth and suffering. When things cease, when everything ceases then there's peace isn't there? There is knowing, serenity, emptiness, not-self. These are the words, the concepts describing cessation.

    http://www.amaravati.org/documents/t..._is/20moa.html


    I think this section is particularly interesting


    "When we get to cessation of ignorance then at that moment all the rest of the sequence ceases. It is not like one ceases then another ceases. When there is vijja then the suffering ceases. In any moment when there is true mindfulness and wisdom there is no suffering."


    So Ajahn Sumedho seems to say that whenever we are truly mindful, D.O. stops ... be it a temporary stopping or a permanent one.
    Last edited by clw_uk; 27 Aug 13 at 21:46.

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    Forums Member andyrobyn's Avatar
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    Yes, my thoughts have returned to the talk often over the past few days ... and the phrase " it is what it is " continues to come to mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aloka View Post
    Comments after having listened to what he said, are welcome.


    Good talk.


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    Forums Member Trilaksana's Avatar
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    His explanation seems accurate to me. I can see it happening in myself some times.

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    Forums Member Victorious's Avatar
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    A real simple explanation. Thanks. I passed it on.

    /Victor

  8. #8
    I'm bumping up this talk again to see if anyone has any further comments after listening to the talk.



  9. #9
    Here's Joseph Goldstein talking about Dependent Origination:


    https://tricycle.org/magazine/dependent-origination/



  10. #10
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    The rebirth, disease, old age and death bit spoils the Goldstein article for me. I don't think the Buddha taught this, so I would tend to rewrite it:

    The Buddha’s problem, and the problem of us all, is to discover the way out of this cycle of conditioning. It is said that on the night of his enlightenment he worked backward through the Law of Dependent Origination, seeking the place of release. [Suffering is caused by] greed, hatred and delusion. Why are we involved in these kinds of activities? Because of grasping. Why is there grasping? Because of desire in the mind. Why is there desire? Because of feeling, because the quality of pleasantness or unpleasantness arises. Why is there feeling? Because of contact. Why is there contact? Because of the sense-spheres and the whole mind-body phenomena.

    Understanding the Law of Dependent Origination, how because of one thing something else arises, we can begin to break the chain of conditioning. When pleasant things arise, we don’t cling. When unpleasant things arise, we don’t condemn. And when neutral things arise, we’re not forgetful. We are free to break this chain, to free ourselves from conditioned reactions. It takes a powerful mindfulness in every moment not to allow feelings to generate desire.

    When there’s ignorance in the mind, feeling conditions desire. If there’s something pleasant, we want it; something unpleasant, we desire to get rid of it. But if instead of ignorance in the mind there is wisdom and awareness, then we experience feeling but don’t compulsively or habitually grasp or push away. If the feelings are pleasant, we experience them mindfully without clinging. If unpleasant, we experience them mindfully without condemning. No longer do feelings condition desire; instead, there is mindfulness, detachment, letting go. When there is no desire, there’s no grasping; without grasping, there’s no volitional activity of becoming. We become free. No longer driven on by ignorance and desire, the whole mass of suffering is brought to an end.

    (My italics. I've missed stuff out)

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