Share on Facebook
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Thread: Genjokoan

  1. #11



    There's a study of Genjokoan here if nobody wants to attempt an interpretation of any of it.


    http://www.tricycle.com/-practice/genjokoan





  2. #12
    Forums Member fletcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts
    448
    Thats great thanks Aloka

  3. #13
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,684
    Dogen's Sangha has a series of Teishos from Dogen's Shobogenzo. Here we can find a deep insight about the Genjokoan and other chapters of the Shobogenzo. In the format of a Teisho we can found a series of five of them here too.

    Hope can be usefull so to the disscusion for this thread

    As a personal experience, at the dojo we have a few chants. One of it is the Genjokoan and also the Sandokai which is an earlier sutta before Dogen's Genjokoan and before the arrival of Dogen to Japan. Dogen brought Soto tradition to Japan much more outlined but the roots of Soto school were given at the time of Sekito Kisén. The final chant is a beautifull one where we recite all the Zen ancestors beginig with Maha Kasapa, a direct disciple of the historical Buddha.

    At the dojo there have been a few teishos about the Genjokoan but saddly I have not attended them so I do not have personal quotes of them. The teishos I have attended are about the Bedowa and zazen skills. But anyway the links given here bring a good aproach to the Soto understanding of the Genjokoan.

    Hope you can enjoy them.

    More later...


  4. #14
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,684
    "As the myriad things are without an abiding self, there is no delusion, no realization, no buddha, no sentient being, no birth and death."

    Through a first glimpse, not having read the several interpretations given here, the first poem opens this Genjo telling us about the selflessness of all things. As this particular Genjo is about the actualization of Buddha Nature as an inherently aspect of the nature of mind, and as any Genjo which speaks about an awakened "eye", to understand the no fixed self (the abiding self) of all phenomena, is to realize or actualize this nature. Actualizing this nature, Ignorance is gone and gone with it the ideas about being awakened, about Buddhahood, etc...

    In this way, I have found Ajahn Sumedho, in his The Four Noble Truths commentary a similar approach when he is explaining the core aspect of letting go in page 33 after making a reference to the ñanadassana concept that equals the Negemisho doctrine about silent learning as the Sumedho's insight understanding.

    In short, the first poem of the Genjokoan seems to talk about letting go through a direct understanding of a fixed self or Anatta in all phenomena (the myriad things) including mental clinging to the idea of me as an awakened entity.

    Anyway... help is always needed...


  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaarine Alejandra
    Buddha Nature

    Hi Kaarine,

    What is your interpretation of the term 'Buddha Nature'? Its also used a lot in Tibetan

    Buddhism, but not to my knowledge in Theravada.


    D.

  6. #16
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,684
    "To study the Buddha way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away. No trace of realization remains, and this no-trace continues endlessly."

    Maybe this is one of the most popular section or quote of the Genjokon. Aside from the different interpretation I think this section speaks about a core aspect of zazen: The study of the self. Some of the experiences given by this practice is forgeting the self and in accordance with the first set of the poem, zazen, as a kind of actualization of Buddha Nature, is the actualization about things (myriad things) without an abiding self. It goes beyond the personal actualization and in a classical Mahayana approach, it gives an actualization of others as selflessness entities. This again, in a classical Mahayana approach, vanishes the sense of separateness in "[...as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away] where drop away is the case of letting go explained in Sumedho's commentaries to the Four Noble Truths. The section of "no trace continues endlessly" is very Zen: "The awakening hit" that happens when it is understood through the Negemisho doctrine. Once hitted... it is as an everlasting Right View.


  7. #17
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,684
    Quote Originally Posted by Aloka-D
    What is your interpretation of the term 'Buddha Nature'?
    Is a reference about the potentiality to develop Right View so to overcome Ignorance. This idea comes hand to hand with "luminous mind". There can be no understanding, practice and result of the teachings with out Buddha Nature. To overcome Ignorance is though a luminous mind.


  8. #18
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,684
    Going to bed... hope I can overcome Insomina...

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaarine Alejandra
    There can be no understanding, practice and result of the teachings with out Buddha Nature.

    Sounds very dogmatic. .....and rather confusing if it refers to Right View.(#16)...also if "Buddha Nature" is already there as Mahayana usually asserts, then the above quote wouldn't really make any sense, would it?

    In Tibetan Buddhism ''Buddha Nature'' is used to describe "the potential that every sentient being (ants too) has for enlightenment". Also used to describe ''the true nature of mind''.


    According to Wikipedia, Zen has a similar meaning:

    Zen asserts, as do other schools in Mahāyāna Buddhism, that all sentient beings have Buddha-nature (Skt. Buddhadhātu, Tathāgatagarbha), the universal nature of transcendent wisdom (Skt. prajñā), and emphasizes that Buddha-nature is nothing other than the essential nature of the mind itself. The aim of Zen practice is to discover this Buddha-nature within each person, through meditation and practice of the Buddha's teachings

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen

    Regarding a Theravada perspective:



    "the Buddha never advocated attributing an innate nature of any kind to the mind — good, bad, or Buddha.

    The idea of innate natures slipped into the Buddhist tradition in later centuries, when the principle of freedom was forgotten. Past bad kamma was seen as so totally deterministic that there seemed no way around it unless you assumed either an innate Buddha in the mind that could overpower it, or an external Buddha who would save you from it. But when you understand the principle of freedom — that past kamma doesn't totally shape the present, and that present kamma can always be free to choose the skillful alternative — you realize that the idea of innate natures is unnecessary: excess baggage on the path."


    excerpt from "Freedom from Buddha Nature" by Thanissaro Bhikkhu


    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a...dhanature.html


    Anyway....just thought I'd mention it. Do carry on with the Koan.




  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaarine Alejandra
    Going to bed... hope I can overcome Insomina.

    Sleep well Kaarine dear.



Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Los Angeles Mexico City London Colombo Kuala Lumpur Sydney
Mon, 11:01 PM Tue, 1:01 AM Tue, 7:01 AM Tue, 11:31 AM Tue, 2:01 PM Tue, 5:01 PM