Share on Facebook
Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Thread: Buddhist Psychology

  1. #11
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueseasparkling #5:
    you speak of right view - can you describe this - is it peaceful clarity or do you also find answers to your own questions through the process - innate wisdom?
    Right View is a core aspect to understand the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Noble Path. Both teachings are not realy separate if you understand the first, the second is understood. If you take over the second, the first is realized. Even when this teachings are taught as "steps", there are no such steps. Meditation helps to the development of Right View... The Noble Livelihood brings you Right View or in some other way, The Noble Viwe brings you a Right Livelihood, a Noble Mindfulness, Concentration and Wisdom.

    Mindfulness and concetration are given by Zazen that in some way is like both, Vipasana and Samatha.

    To understand Right View I take the statemente made by Stuka here:

    Quote Originally Posted by stuka #6:
    He [the buddha] taught that we tend to grasp at sense experience and fashion self-view to accord with that sense experience, and act according to that self view. He further taught that self-view is a house of cards, that we cling to experience and self-view and expect the world to conform to that view, and experience misery when the world does not conform. This is the effect of ignorance (not knowing, not seeing) on our perception of the world. Ignorance of what? That sense experience is impermanent, not "me" or "mine", and can bring suffering when we grasp it as "me" or "mine".
    So in this case, Right View is to "see" things, people, ideas, events... with out the veil of Ignorance. We "ignore" that clinging and running away are at the root of suffering.

    As stuka told, paticcasamuppada or Dependent Origination complements or brings the understanding of the process that is to be understood so to develop Righ View.

    Now, silent learning has a lot to do with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by stuka #6:
    first through understanding, and, more gradually, through integrating this new understanding into our mental habits
    In Zen we devote very little to intelectual understanding and we go directly to the integration process through a very strict and intense practice of zazen that gives us the strenght (Gyoji) for develping this particular Zen attitude toward practice.

    Namaste dear Blueseasparkling,


  2. #12
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueseasparkling #5:
    you speak of right view
    This is a good source for whats about right view here but also this one has some insightfull reflextions that maybe can result of a usefull guidance.

    Namaste dear Blue,


  3. #13
    Forums Member plogsties's Avatar
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaarine Alejandra #9:
    Buddha also did not teach that we have an innate "Buddha Nature".
    This is surprising to me - not because I believed it was so but because I recall discussions saying exactly this. Could you please provide references that would clear up what Buddha did teach in regards to what, if anything, is innate for us humans?

    BTW, I have trouble with the idea that a serial rapist has Buddha nature.

  4. #14
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by Replying to plogsties:
    from post #13
    That statement was given by stuka, so it could be nice to see if he gives us some feedback about. About this, I just commented that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaarine Alejandra #9:
    I am aware that "Buddha Nature" <u>probably</u> was not teached by the Buddha but
    because I do not have quick references for this. The ones "we" have are given by Dogen Zengi in his Koans...


  5. #15
    Forums Member
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    261
    A quick note here: this will not be the place to discuss Buddha Nature, as this is a thread to do with psychology.

    The proper location will be a new thread entirely.

  6. #16
    Forums Member stuka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    "Oh, Gawd, uh 'nuther Sutta Thumper..."
    Posts
    1,717
    Quote Originally Posted by Replying to Kaarine Alejandra:
    This is a good source for whats about right view <u>here</u>...
    Thanissaro's description of "mundane" right view vs. "superior' right view falls along the lines of the abhidhammic/commentarial tradition that claims that both views are necessary for liberation, starting (and usually, for almost everyone) with karma and reincarnation, and only moving to the "superior" right view later, sometimes reserving this "superior" right view only for arhants.

    Their is a serious misrepresentation going on here in the translation and exposition of the Buddha's teachings concerning "right view". Thanissaro is obviously relying a great deal on the Maha Cattarisaka Sutta ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....117.than.html ), in which the Buddha describes the two forms of "right view", and indeed illustrates one of these views - the one that is unique to him -- as superior.

    In this sutta, the Buddha delineates several speculative views that preceded him: some of which he describes as wrong view, whose opposites he described as "right view with asavas", and his own sort of "right view", which he described as "without asavas". But what does this "asavas" mean? Does this mean "mundane"? What does "mundane" mean in this context, and does it mean what the Buddha meant?

    There are several translations for "asava", including "taints", "fermentations", "defilements", "pollutants", "effluents" (from effluvium, which means "sewage"), and "outflows". What does this mean, "right view with defilements", "right view with taints, pollutants, sewage"?

    We tend to see three or four qualities defined as "asava": sensuality (attachment to "sense pleasures"), speculative view, becoming (clinging to notions of "me" and "mine"), and ignorance.

    So this "right view with asavas" is a "right view" (in that belief in it leads one toward ethical behavior), but it is "asava" because it is based in speculative view, attachment to sensuality and illusions of status and ownership, and ignorance. This is what Thanissaro is calling "mundane right view" and pushing as a compulsory precursor to "superior right view".

    How does the Buddha define "superior right view"? He calls it "noble right view that is without asava, liberative, a factor of the path" (sammaditthi ariyo anasava lokuttara maggaphala) . Why is it called "noble"? It is the highest view the purest view. It is untainted by greed, aversion, and ignorance; the roots of sensuality, status and ownership, ignorance, and speculative view. It transcends superstition, greed, aversion and speculative view; these things are not necessary to hold together the Buddha's "right view", and it is a factor of the Noble Eightfold Path, the path to liberation as the Buddha defined it.

    How does the Buddha define "noble right view"? He defines it in terms of discernment, in terms of what we can see and know for ourselves. He further states that "the ending of the effluents is for one who knows and sees, not for one who does not know and does not see."

    Seeing and knowing what, he asks? Seeing and knowing paticcasamuppada in the here and now. Seeing and knowing the effect of ignorance and self-grasping on our perception of the world, and the connection between that influence of ignorance and self-grasping and misery and suffering that we cause for ourselves and others.

    This is not a superstition-based right view, not a speculation-based right view, it is a right view based in seeing and knowing the relationships between intention, action, and consequence. It is very much based in an ethics of reciprocity, an expended form of what we know of today as the "Golden Rule". This is what makes the Buddha's "right view" far superior to the superstitions that preceded him, which he called "right view with defilements".

  7. #17
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by stuka #16:
    it in terms of discernment
    Thanks stuka, this is what I understand is the essence of a "Right View",


  8. #18
    Forums Member stuka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    "Oh, Gawd, uh 'nuther Sutta Thumper..."
    Posts
    1,717
    Quote Originally Posted by plogsties #13:


    Kaarine Alejandra #9:
    Buddha also did not teach that we have an innate "Buddha Nature".


    This is surprising to me - not because I believed it was so but because I recall discussions saying exactly this. Could you please provide references that would clear up what Buddha did teach in regards to what, if anything, is innate for us humans?
    The Buddha often spoke of an "untaught, ordinary person, who has no regard for the noble ones" (has not heard the Dhamma). That person grows to crave for and cling to sense experience, unless he hears the Dhamma and becomes aware of that craving and clinging, and takes steps to eradicate it:


    "Bhikkhus, that child grows and his faculties mature and he plays games that children play, such as playing with toy ploughs, turning somersaults, making toy wind mills with palm leaves, making small carts and bows. Bhikkhus, that child grows and his faculties mature [further] and the youth enjoys the five strands of sense pleasures; he lives enticed by pleasing and agreeable forms cognizable by eye consciousness, agreeable sounds cognizable by ear consciousness, agreeable smells cognizable by nose consciousness, agreeable tastes cognizable by tongue consciousness and agreeable touches cognizable by body consciousness.

    "On seeing a form with the eye he becomes greedy for a pleasant form, or averse to a disagreeable form. He abides with mindfulness of the body not established and with a limited mind. He does not know the deliverance of mind nor the deliverance through wisdom as it really is, where unwholesome states cease completely. He follows the path of agreeing and disagreeing and experiences whatever feeling that arises - pleasant, unpleasant, or neither unpleasant nor pleasant. Delighted and pleased with those [pleasant] feelings he appropriates them. This arouses interest in those feelings. That interest for feelings is clinging. From clinging, there arises becoming, from becoming arises birth, from birth old age, sickness and death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress. Thus arises the complete mass of dukkha.

    "Hearing a sound with the ear...., (same as last paragraph)

    "Smelling a smell with the nose,...

    "Tasting a taste with the tongue,....

    "Feeling a touch with the body,.....

    "Thinking a thought with the mind, he becomes greedy for a pleasant experience, or averse to a disagreeable one. He abides with mindfulness of the body not established and with a limited mind. He does not know the deliverance of mind nor the deliverance through wisdom as it really is, where unwholesome states cease completely. He follows the path of agreeing and disagreeing and experiences whatever feeling that arises - pleasant, unpleasant, or neither unpleasant nor pleasant. Delighted and pleased with those [pleasant] feelings he appropriates them. This arouses interest in those feelings. That interest for feelings is clinging. From clinging, there arises becoming, from becoming arises birth, from birth old age
    [decay], sickness and death, grief, lament, unpleasantness, displeasure and distress. In short, the complete mass of dukkha."


    -- MN 38, Maha Tanhasankhaya Sutta

  9. #19
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
    Location
    Under the Bodhi Tree
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by stuka #18:
    "Bhikkhus, that child grows and his faculties mature and he plays games that children play, such as playing with toy ploughs, turning somersaults, making toy wind mills with palm leaves, making small carts and bows. Bhikkhus, that child grows and his faculties mature [further] and the youth enjoys the five strands of sense pleasures; he lives enticed...
    Wonderfull...

    Seems it's pointing at the Dependent Origination doctrine...

    Thanks,


  10. #20
    Forums Member stuka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    "Oh, Gawd, uh 'nuther Sutta Thumper..."
    Posts
    1,717
    Quote Originally Posted by Replying to Kaarine Alejandra:
    from post #19
    Exactly!

Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Los Angeles Mexico City London Colombo Kuala Lumpur Sydney
Fri, 2:39 AM Fri, 4:39 AM Fri, 10:39 AM Fri, 3:09 PM Fri, 5:39 PM Fri, 7:39 PM