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Thread: What are your views on birth control and abortion?

  1. #1
    What are your personal views on birth control and abortion ?

  2. #2
    Forums Member thundreams's Avatar
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    Hi Aloka,

    I have some questions in relation to your question.

    If leaving the Bardo state the mindstream enters a new womb, is it then karma that the recipent would choose to have an abortion? And whose karma is it, the individual who has the abortion or the the one who is aborted? Or perhaps it is collective karma?

    On a personal level I do not believe in abortion as it is taking a life and I do not have the right to make that kind of decision.

    Metta,
    Gail

  3. #3
    If reproduction is unwanted, then don't have intercourse. Treat the itch, rather than the effect that comes from scratching the itch. Or, there are other ways to bond sexually without inseminating the womb. Then there's no need for birth control or abortion (except in the case of rape and when the mother's life is endangered).

    If unwanted reproduction happens, then have a healthy birth and if necessary find a good home for the child.

    Our modern culture, alienated from seasonal breeding tides, has convinced ourselves that the agitating itch is a "need". We've created a "need" in the mind complete with narratives that would have us believe that we're not whole and can't be happy unless we're regularly and reactively scratching that agitating itch for our entire life - even though common sense tells us that the more we scratch it physically and mentally, the more habitually agitated it becomes. We consider ourselves to be sexually liberated, but when examined closely, it begins to look more like slavery.

    Elder cultures reserved breeding for breeding seasons, and by doing so, channeled the energy behind that itch into the common good, while carefully managing population in balance with the limits and boundaries of the natural world.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by thundreams #2:

    I have some questions in relation to your question.

    If leaving the Bardo state the mindstream enters a new womb, is it then karma that the recipent would choose to have an abortion? And whose karma is it, the individual who has the abortion or the the one who is aborted? Or perhaps it is collective karma?
    Hiya Gail,

    I'm really sorry but I can't answer your questions because I'm unwilling to speculate about what happens to people after death, or about their karma.

    Buddha said :

    There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?

    "The Buddha-range of the Buddhas is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

    "The jhana-range of a person in jhana...

    " <span style="color:#FF0000">**</span>The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...<span style="color:#FF0000">**</span>

    "Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.

    "These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."

    AN 4.77 URL
    Also, the Buddha didn't teach about Bardo and its only taught in Tibetan Buddhism . Its not recognised by other traditions. The Bardo teachings were composed by Padmasambhava, an Indian teacher who went to Tibet around the ninth century.


    Kind wishes to you,


    Aloka

  5. #5
    Forums Member Element's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pink_trike #3:
    We consider ourselves to be sexually liberated, but when examined closely, it begins to look more like slavery.
    Nice post Pink.

    Personally, I think one cannot find a position of 'truth' in the mundane realm.

    I certainly cannot disagree with what you said above. Birth control has nurtured some hungry ghost & hell realms.

    But I also think birth control has created more love & intimacy between men & women, in those partners who can manage their relationship more wisely.

    Men have learned more love but possibly at the diminishing of woman's innate wisdom.

    The mothers of former years with upright moral qualities are certainly more difficult to find. Often, women have become "wishy washy" in their outer values, inwardly hoping for male morals & commitment but outwardly playing the sexual card.

    However, men learning more love leads to less violence, less wars, more considerate thinking.

    Also, many innately weaker women have not suffered from the hardship of multiple pregnancies.

    Personally, I find birth control a fascinating evolution of psycho/technological development. It has certainly changed the psychological make up of human beings.

    Most could not even imagine life & what they would be without it.


  6. #6
    Forums Member Element's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Element #5:
    Also, many innately weaker women have not suffered from the burden of multiple pregnancies.
    For example, my mother always had a very strong control over the sexuality in her marriage.

    I would guess this is due to her childhood experiences.

    From what she has told me, when she was a child, the family slept in one room and when her father came home drunk late at night, he would always slyly demand & have sex with his wife.

    My mother's mother had eighteen children, eight of which passed away near birth. Her mother also passed away at a relatively young age.

    I think there are benefits & there a dangers of birth control.


  7. #7
    Allis
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replying to Aloka-D:
    from post #4
    Buddha is that which is neither one nor the other of a thing, a state or a
    conditon. The ancients coined a word for it, calling it "the above oppsite"
    In this manner one will gradually get rid oft he habit of gving "things" a name or identifyiing with them.. (German: Das Übergegensätzliche).

    Allis

  8. #8
    Forums Member Human_Revolution's Avatar
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    Interesting topic Aloka-D!

    I have no issues of birth control such as condoms, pills and other pre-fertilisation techniques.

    I do find abortion very difficult to contemplate however, I am pro-life and this has led to many heated discussions. Of course the one thing I cannot argue with is the right to abortion of a woman who is raped. I understand why the mother would not want to keep the child.

    Another area I have been thinking about recently is the morning after pill which is taken after unprotected sex or an accident i.e. a condom splitting.

    In my mind after an egg has been fertilised it is a life. Obviously most methods of birth control are not 100% safe and therefore pregnancy can occur even when people have tried to be safe.

    Is this just life finding its way?

  9. #9
    Forums Member plogsties's Avatar
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    I'm not opposed to methods of birth control but I think abortion is the taking of a life. Although the question of when does a single cell dividing become an actual being is hard to analyze, any textbook on embryology will tell you that, at six weeks, all the organ systems have been formed. Arguing that a six week old fetus is "not a person" is self-serving un-truth used to justify the act of abortion. The more humane thing to do, in my view, is bear the child to term and give it up for adoption (especially in an age in which infertility is becoming more common, for various reasons). As stated, I agree that a pregnancy resulting from rape may have to be looked at differently although it is still the taking of a life.

    I see abortion as one manifestation of the extreme egocentrism that I see everywhere. "The end justifies the means" may apply here as well.

    My feelings are not based on any religious exposure I may have had.

  10. #10
    Forums Member stuka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allis #7:
    Buddha is that which is neither one nor the other of a thing, a state or a
    conditon. The ancients coined a word for it, calling it "the above oppsite"
    In this manner one will gradually get rid oft he habit of gving "things" a name or identifyiing with them.. (German: Das Übergegensätzliche).

    Allis
    You are using a unique and not-agreed-upon re-definition of "Buddha".

    Whatever "ancients" you refer to (much better to cite sources) are certain not the man we call the Buddha, who did not teach any of what you are claiming here. The Buddha certainly and indisputably did use language and "giving things a name" to convey his insights to others, and quite successfullyl.

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