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Thread: What the Buddha Really Taught

  1. #11
    Forums Member Daozen's Avatar
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    Buddha's words are in the Pali Canon.

    Buddha's meaning is everywhere around you.

  2. #12
    Global Moderator Esho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daozen #11:
    Buddha's words are in the Pali Canon.

    Buddha's meaning is everywhere around you.
    Very true, makes a lot of sense...

    Thanks Daozen...


  3. #13
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    I would look at these..
    "Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two?
    He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata.
    And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata."
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....023.than.html

    "In whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline, Subhadda, there is not found the Noble Eightfold Path, neither is there found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, or fourth degree of saintliness.
    But in whatsoever Dhamma and Discipline there is found the Noble Eightfold Path, there is found a true ascetic of the first, second, third, and fourth degrees of saintliness.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....1-6.vaji.html

    'Those who teach a Dhamma for the abandoning of passion, for the abandoning of aversion, for the abandoning of delusion — their Dhamma is well-taught.
    "How amazing, sir. How astounding, that there is neither extolling of one's own Dhamma nor deprecation of another's, but just the teaching of the Dhamma in its proper sphere, speaking to the point without mentioning oneself.
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....072.than.html

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replying to Kaarine Alejandra:
    from post #10
    Hi.. Kaarine, I think Zen is close to Theravada because Zen came to china after Mahayana.

    In Thailand, everybody know Sao-Lin Temple and Some know Bodhidharma or Tak mor as the Master of ZEN.
    Bodhidharma

    Thai Buddhist know Zen from this sutra
    The Sutra of Hui Neng
    And Hui Neng Picture.
    Hui Neng wikipedia


  5. #15
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    I'm not sure Zen 'came to' China so much as 'arose within' China; I would be curious to know which might be the earliest sutra which reflects a distinctively Ch'an/Zen message?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sukitlek #14:
    Hi.. Kaarine, I think Zen is close to Theravada because Zen came to china after Mahayana.
    Thanks sukitlek dear

    I still have a question wondering if you can help in it:

    Development thorough time and also from geographical setting, Zen is very far, I think, from Theravadin tradition but I am very surprised to read Theravadin teachers that share many understandings with Zen teachers.

    Why is that the very fact that zen came or arouse (as told by Sobeh) in china make it closer to Theravadin tradition?


  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sukitlek #14:
    Thai Buddhist know Zen from this sutra
    The Sutra of Hui Neng
    And Hui Neng Picture.
    Hui Neng wikipedia
    Thanks again sukiltek dear,

    At the place, the dojo we call, where I practice we have as one of our main Zen suttas the one given by the Third Ancestor Seng Tsan known as The Mind of Absolut Trust at least as was downloaded here.


  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobeh #15:
    I'm not sure Zen 'came to' China so much as 'arose within' China;
    Yes, it is much more understandable that Zen arose within China and I am not shure but think that was what sukiltek tried to say. English isn't our original lenguage (sukiltek and me) so we do are not to exact about some important subtleties.


  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobeh #15:
    I would be curious to know which might be the earliest sutra which reflects a distinctively Ch'an/Zen message?
    We work with an earlier sutta, the one of our Third Ancestor from Boddhidharma, wich I have ]http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries.com/img/smilies/wink.gif[/img]

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaarine Alejandra #16:
    Why is that the very fact that zen came or arouse (as told by Sobeh) in china make it closer to Theravadin tradition?
    After the Parinibbana it's pretty likely that some purely Brahmanical meditation techniques crept into the Suttas (likely the source of the disc meditations among others), a process largely facilitated by the Buddha's unique use of common Brahmanical terms. In other words, certain habitual interpretations of terms might easily have crept into, for example, the Commentaries.

    Well, I have a growing suspicion that something similar took place in translating the Dhamma into Chinese; the Mahayana Sutras took on some Taoist terminology in order to manipulate it to serve the larger Buddhist pedagogical intention, and thus some habitual Taoist ideas crept into that particular mix.

    I further suspect that reading the early Mahayana texts with this rubric in mind will offer some very interesting perspectives, and so with this in mind I wondered what an early Ch'an Sutra might be - for example, is the Lotus Sutra held in any esteem by the Ch'an/Zen school?

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