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Thread: The Greater Discourse on the Destruction of Craving - MN38

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by frank #60:
    Aloka, that's him on the left eh?
    Of course not, silly. HHFSM only reveals His All to special students in private.

    Anyway... returning to MN 38 once again....

  2. #62
    Forums Member stuka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank #57:
    stuka #44:
    This is conjecture based on conjecture based on conjecture based on a flawed reading of the teachings

    .....sigh......
    In your opinion.
    Not "in my opinion":

    Quote Originally Posted by frank #7:
    Maybe if our physical bodies....
    Maybe...maybe...maybe....and none of it supported in the Buddha's teachings.

  3. #63
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    Knowing and seeing in this way, would you now be inwardly perplexed about the present thus: 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where will it go?'?" -"No, venerable sir."


    I quite like this extract. I have found it quite easy to slip into "Am I, Am I not" in relation to my practice

    "Am I enlightened, Am I not" or "Am I in Jhana ....."


    However with practice I can see that the very thought "Am I ...." comes from clinging and so leads to dukkha. Nibbana cannot be when there are such thoughts/conceptions, hence why there is no "self" in nibbana since nibbana cannot be if there is "self" since "self" comes from clinging and will lead to more dukkha


    With practice one sees that "Am I" comes from said clinging and so will not chase after such notions

    "Will I be reborn, will I be dead forever, Where did I come from etc...." are seen as the result of attachment and a cause for dukkha, hence they are abandoned. If one is practising for the abandoning of dukkha that is



    metta

  4. #64
    Forums Member stuka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clw_uk #63:
    Knowing and seeing in this way, would you now be inwardly perplexed about the present thus: 'Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where will it go?'?" -"No, venerable sir."


    I quite like this extract. I have found it quite easy to slip into "Am I, Am I not" in relation to my practice
    There is a much larger meaning at work here, however: The Buddha is saying that, knowing and seeing thus [knowing and seeing paticcasamuppada], one sees no need for speculations about life and death, hereafter theories, metaphysics and cosmologies.

    The context of the above quote is, of course, in the course of his taking Sati the Fisherman's Son to task for characterizing His teachings as just such a metaphysical speculative view.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuka #64:
    here is a much larger meaning at work here, however: The Buddha is saying that, knowing and seeing thus [knowing and seeing paticcasamuppada], one sees no need for speculations about life and death, hereafter theories, metaphysics and cosmologies.
    Would that be because they see that such things come into being through clinging and so lead to dukkha?


    metta

  6. #66
    Forums Member stuka's Avatar
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    These pursuits are driven by self-view-clinging, yes. They are sasava, as the Buddha points out in MN 117.

    Reincarnation-and-karma-view is driven by self-view-clinging: "I will be reborn as this or that".

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