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clw_uk
25 May 11, 17:11
Hello

Just wanted a general discussion on if Buddha did teach "non-Duality" or not?


For me it seems he did teach a form of it. I come to this conclusion because of emptiness. When the mind is empty of "Me and mine" then there is no duality of subject and owner. Instead there is only subject and so, non-duality


E.g. Duality would be "I feel pain/this pain is mine"

Non-Duality would be "There is pain"




Thoughts?

srivijaya
25 May 11, 17:23
I wouldn't say he "taught" it is as such, at least not that I have seen anything in the Pali like it but others may know better. That said, I agree with what you say regarding the dropping of 'being in the object'. It's a kind of natural non-duality as opposed to a philosophically engineered one.

clw_uk
25 May 11, 19:31
I wouldn't say he "taught" it is as such, at least not that I have seen anything in the Pali like it but others may know better. That said, I agree with what you say regarding the dropping of 'being in the object'. It's a kind of natural non-duality as opposed to a philosophically engineered one.

I agree he didn't teach is as such, more that it is an outcome of the teachings

So when one is wise in regards to the sense doors, there is no birth of "I" and so non-dual experience free from dukkha

FBM
26 May 11, 11:59
From what I understand from Richard Gombrich and others, reality (or the world) for the Buddha was what is experienced. This extremely subjective perspective doesn't fit very well into our pigeonholes. We tend to assume that we are beings somehow embedded in an 'other' universe, but I'm not sure this is an innate facet of human perception. I'm beginning to think that we have to learn to interpret experience like that.

Also, note the frequent use in the Pali of terms like, such-and-such phenomenon arises or 'This is a pleasant feeling'. These sorts of expression make the subject-object dichotomy very fuzzy and liminal by removing the human subject.

It might be more accurate to say that in meditation, one can have an experience of non-duality. That experience arises when certain conditions are met. This avoids a universal metaphysical claim of duality or non-duality and simply states what is experienced.

stuka
26 May 11, 14:28
Hello

Just wanted a general discussion on if Buddha did teach "non-Duality" or not?


For me it seems he did teach a form of it. I come to this conclusion because of emptiness. When the mind is empty of "Me and mine" then there is no duality of subject and owner. Instead there is only subject and so, non-duality





Sure, you can call that a non-duality, but non-duality wasn't the point, nor is sunnata offered as a proof of an overarching assertion of a principle of non-duality.

In the end, non-duality is just another metaphysical speculation, another wilderness of views.

fojiao2
26 May 11, 17:27
In the end, non-duality is just another metaphysical speculation, another wilderness of views.
if it's non duality, how can it have an end?

stuka
26 May 11, 18:47
if it's non duality, how can it have an end?

It ends in a wilderness of views, of course.

clw_uk
26 May 11, 18:56
Sure, you can call that a non-duality, but non-duality wasn't the point, nor is sunnata offered as a proof of an overarching assertion of a principle of non-duality.

In the end, non-duality is just another metaphysical speculation, another wilderness of views.

Hey

I agree the Buddha didnt set out to teach a metaphysical Non-Duality such as what we find in Hinduism

I suppose this is my own idiosyncratic use of the term since I only use it in terms of subject and object, i.e. no me or mine

PutUpYourDukkhas
10 Jun 11, 01:24
Buddha said, "consciousness is not yours"*.

In this respect he taught non-dualism.

*Majjhima Nikaya 22: Alagagaddupamasuttam (The Simile of the Snake).

stuka
10 Jun 11, 01:42
Buddha said, "consciousness is not yours"*.

In this respect he taught non-dualism.

*Majjhima Nikaya 22: Alagagaddupamasuttam (The Simile of the Snake).

Amusing moniker.

How are you claiming this to be "a non-dualism"?

Element
10 Jun 11, 03:00
Buddha said, "consciousness is not yours"*.

In this respect he taught non-dualism.

*Majjhima Nikaya 22: Alagagaddupamasuttam (The Simile of the Snake).
How are you claiming this to be "a non-dualism"?


Nondualism is a term used to denote affinity, or unity, rather than duality or separateness or multiplicity. In reference to the universe it may be used to denote the idea that things appear distinct while not being separate. The term "nondual" (meaning "not two") can refer to a belief, condition, theory, practice, or quality. Nondualism has been linked with "Monism" or "qualified monism" with which it is sometimes confused (even conflated).