A Nice Translation of Mahamudra Instructions

[srivijaya]

Much of the following resonates with me. A great translation by Ken McLeod.

1.
Mahamudra cannot be taught, Naropa,
But your devotion to your teacher and the hardships you’ve met
Have made you patient in suffering and also wise:
Take this to heart, my worthy student.

2.
For instance, consider space: what depends on what?
Likewise, mahamudra: it doesn't depend on anything.
Don't control. Let go and rest naturally.
Let what binds you let go and freedom is not in doubt.

3.
When you look into space, seeing stops.
Likewise, when mind looks at mind,
The flow of thinking stops and you come to the deepest awakening.

Link:
http://www.unfetteredmind.org/translations/ganges.php

[plwk]

So Guru Yoga is just a raft....

25.
At first, practice is a river rushing through a gorge.
In the middle, it’s the river Ganges, smooth and flowing.
In the end, it’s where all rivers meet, mother and child.

Leading to...

17.
Beyond any frame of reference mind is naturally clear.
Where there is no path you begin the path of awakening.
Where there is nothing to work on you come to the deepest awakening.

24.
The most majestic of outlooks is free of all reference.
The most majestic of practices is vast and deep without limit.
The most majestic of behaviors is open-minded and impartial.
The most majestic of fruitions is natural being, free of concern.
Reading some of these sends tingles in me like as if I am reading from Ch'an texts lol

[srivijaya]

Yes, it's truly inspiring and beautiful.

[WhoKnows]

Guru Yoga is Mahamudra, or is it the other way around? I'm not sure that you can put away either of these.

[Aloka]

Guru Yoga is Mahamudra, or is it the other way around? I'm not sure that you can put away either of these.

I don't think Guru Yoga can be classed as Mahamudra can it ? I was under the impression that usually in Vajrayana its said that after completing Ngondro (of which Guru Yoga is the fourth) one can then practice Mahamudra. (see Jamgon Kontrul's 'Torch of Certainty')

I've just looked at the end of the section on Guru Yoga which is the last of the 4 Special Foundations (Ngondro).... it says under 'Signs of Successful Practice' "Since your ability to practice Mahamudra, the actual ground- meditation, depends on the receipt of the blessing (of the guru) it is said 'Do not run full tilt at tranquility and insight. First cultivate a fertile ground for positive qualities in yourself' "

So I think generally Mahamudra is said to develop from that stage onwards.

I attended a residential Mahamudra course years ago - though I can't remember much about the essential details now and didn't take notes. The key points of the instructions are meant to become evident in the individual's personal practice.

.

[srivijaya]

I agree with Aloka-D there. I don't think the two are the same at all.

In fact, I would say that if you are thinking about your guru's qualities and praising them, then the mind has not stilled - the flow of thinking has not stopped.

[andyrobyn]

My understanding is as Aloka-D describes above - Guru Yoga is a part of a practitioners Ngondro - Ngondro refers to preliminary and foundation practices , which are emphasized and engaged by all traditions of the Vajrayana path to prepare the individual practitioner. Guru yoga is focused developing a good, positive connection between the teacher ( lama) and the practitioner, which is important for receiving explanation of instructions and to give clarification as necessary, the blessing of empowerment and of scriptural transmission - Mahamudra develops from the foundation in my experience.

[WhoKnows]

Sorry, I stated my point wrongly. What I meant to say is that, from my readings, Mahamudra is about non-duality. Guru Yoga is about the inseparability of the teacher and the student and is therefore non-duality.

[Aloka]

Sorry, I stated my point wrongly. What I meant to say is that, from my readings, Mahamudra is about non-duality. Guru Yoga is about the inseparability of the teacher and the student and is therefore non-duality.

In my understanding duality means "I" and "other", "good" and "bad"etc. and in daily life we have to deal with it on a relative level.

Mahamudra is about the practice of meditation and its various stages. As for inseperability of teacher and student - that maybe seen as such on one level but is not so on another - so therefore to me it can't be classed as 'non duality'.

One can appreciate non conceptuality through an experiential understanding of emptiness, clarity and awareness, however I think its quite dangerous to imagine that on a relative level there's no good or bad action and so on. If that were the case we'd just sit and watch the axe-murderer hacking his neighbour up and say " Peace, man "

.

[WhoKnows]

Definitely, but neither of the methods deny the role of the conventional, in fact it is a great deviation in Mahamudra to deny the conventional. And I doubt that Guru Yoga asserts that the Guru and the student are actually the same being. As to non-duality, I suppose its just another method to get some detachment so that we can still act, but without being a slave to our emotions, in this way similar to emptiness?

As for inseperability of teacher and student - that maybe seen as such on one level but is not so on another - so therefore to me it can't be classed as 'non duality'.
Non-duality, at least in the context that I was using it, is an ultimate teaching not a conventional one. It shouldn't be used in the conventional context so your misgivings are correct.

[srivijaya]

I still don't understand why you equate the two. Also distinctions such as Conventional & Ultimate are meaningless within Mahamudra.

Six Words of Advice
from Tilopa

Don't recall.
Don't imagine.
Don't think.
Don't examine.
Don't control.
Rest.
http://www.unfetteredmind.org/translations/tilopa.php

[Aloka]

Relaaax... let go of past and future... ( but remember to put the bins out on Mondays ! )


:meditate:

[Aloka]

Some information about Tilopa for members who are unfamiliar with who he was.

http://www.kagyuoffice.org/kagyulineage.tilopa.html


and more details here:

http://www.kagyu.org/kagyulineage/lineage/kag02.php

[Aloka]

On the subject of Mahamudra, this might be of interest:

"Three Classifications of Mahamudra" by Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche:

http://www.dpr.info/media/www.DPR.info-ThreeClassificationsOfMahamudra.pdf


.

[Aloka]

There's also a commentary on Tilopa and Mahamudra here in 'Shenpen Osel' volume 3 :

http://www.shenpen-osel.org/issue8.pdf


(contents on page 2)

[srivijaya]

Some very nice links there A-D.