The Fourteen Meaningless Things

[plwk]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_k2nz1qG2Mh0/TErhVaXL3PI/AAAAAAAAAz8/yx5z3mVDrS4/s1600/Gampopa_line.gif

The Fourteen Meaningless Things (http://www.rinpoche.com/quotes/quote66.htm)

[plwk]

Thoughts? http://www.igotnewsforyou.com/images/monkey_thinking.jpg

[Aloka]

Thanks plwk,

These are the points I feel are most relevant to my own practice:


"Like a parrot reciting verses,
it is meaningless to have a tongue that expertly recites Dharma words
that are not taken to heart"


and:

Like the blind leading the blind,
it is meaningless to teach others a spiritual practice
that you have not realized yourself.


It's all to easy to look outwards at others, whilst forgetting that the real transformation needs to take place within oneself.


:hands:

[andyrobyn]

Like believing brass to be gold,
it is meaningless to think an experience
that is produced through a technique is supreme,
while neglecting the natural state.



Hi Dazz,

This stanza spoke to me tonight .... it is not about technique, theory, how much I can know, rather what I actually do, not what I know I could do, ie. do to my knowledge base and with my capacity, rather what I actually manage to get done.

[srivijaya]

Like believing brass to be gold,
it is meaningless to think an experience
that is produced through a technique is supreme,
while neglecting the natural state.

Very much agree on this one. It's very difficult not to see instructions as a kind of technique.

[andyrobyn]

Not clinging to the technique, rather benefitting from the outcome of the practice has been the key for me

[srivijaya]

Getting past the transactional mindset.

[andyrobyn]

Yes, it is an important step ... hope all good with you and yours

[Aloka]

This verse is quite similar to the first one that I chose:

"Like a doctor striken by an incurable disease,
it is meaningless to have studied a lot
and yet remain shallow".

[srivijaya]

Yes, it is an important step ... hope all good with you and yours

Yes, thanks andy.


it is meaningless to have studied a lot
and yet remain shallow
A-D, The word "shallow" must refer to a neglect of direct experience in favour of scholarly study I guess?

[Aloka]

I though perhaps if there was no understanding (depth) of how to apply his studies to his own illness, (ignorance) then he would be unable to cure himself.

[Esho]

Beautiful and deep...

Thanks plwk!

I like all them but this one caught my attention...


Like handing a mother her child's flesh,
it is meaningless to make offerings to the three jewels
by hurting other sentient beings.

;D

[srivijaya]

I though perhaps if there was no understanding (depth) of how to apply his studies to his own illness, (ignorance) then he would be unable to cure himself.

My interpretation was of a person who accumulates much learning in the belief that this alone is the superior path, whilst paying little heed to the practice of direct experience. Your interpretation is of a person who despite study has no understanding of how to apply it.

Both remind me of Naropa's first encounter with Vajrayogini, in the guise of an old hag, who questions his knowledge. This was during the time he held an eminent position at Nalanda University.

She first asks him if he understands the words which he is studying, to which he replies he does. Then the old hag laughs with joy. She then asks him if he understands their meaning. Wishing to please her again, he replies that he does. She sobs at this and when he enquires why she tells him that she was happy he was honest with his first reply but bitterly disappointed that he lied with his second reply. This jolts him into action to discover the actual essence of what he has learned.

I find meditation must lead the way with the dharma as an aid, not the other way around. So I guess I very much agree with the quote.

[Esho]

plwk, I was wondering if there are the "Fourteen Meaningful Things" in that same style?

;D

PS: Ups... what clumsy... knowing the Meaningless is knowing the Meaningful... :P

[Aloka]

Both remind me of Naropa's first encounter with Vajrayogini, in the guise of an old hag, who questions his knowledge. This was during the time he held an eminent position at Nalanda University.
........
........

This jolts him into action to discover the actual essence of what he has learned.





I have notes about Naropa somewhere from teachings I attended years ago, I'll have to try and dig them out.

To quote Thrangu Rinpoche in 'Songs of Naropa' the story goes :

"One day Naropa was sitting outside the temple (at Nalanda) reading a scripture. Suddenly a shadow fell upon the page. He looked up and saw a very old woman standing before him. She asked him, "What are you reading? Tell me, is it the words you understand, or do you understand the meaning?"

Naropa answered , "Its the words I understand. I am learned in the words". When the old woman heard she was overjoyed. She smiled and laughed; she danced around; she clapped her hands and sang.....(etc)
Naropa wondered "Why is she so happy to hear that I know the words? 'Knowing the words' simply means to be clear about the idea through intellectual reasoning. " He then thought "If that is the case, she will be even more happy when I say I know the meaning"

So Naropa then told her I understand not only the words but also the meaning. " Her reaction was exactly the opposite. ( etc)..... and then she created a scene crying and wailing....(etc) Naropa asked her "Why are you acting like that?"

The old lady replied "You say that you understand the words and that is true. you are a learned pandita....(etc).... But when you say that you understand the meaning, that is not true; you are lying. It made me very sad. You have not yet achieved the totality of experience and realisation. That is why I appeared upset."

~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~

So summerising briefly .....Following on from that, he asks her what to do to be able to understand the meaning. She tells him to seek out her brother Tilopa (who becomes his teacher) to be able to understand the meaning.

Then he prays, and hears a voice from the sky telling him in order to meet Tilopa he needs to practice Chakrasamvara sadhana, and so on.

Sorry didn't have time to type more.

:hands:

[srivijaya]

That's the one A-D. I like the rest of it too where Tilopa gets him to pull ridiculous stunts which take him to death's door. Naropa is everyman in this scenario. Like him, we already have all the words of wisdom we need but are still stupid enough to go seeking more "truth" in external games.

I could really relate to this account. Very moving.

[Aloka]

There are also the 11 signs of a sublime person:

11 SIGNS OF A SUBLIME PERSON

It is a sign of a sublime person...

1. to be less envious and conceited.

2. to have less craving and be content with just the basics of living.

3. not to be pompous, haughty, or arrogant.

4. to be without hypocrisy or double-dealing.

5. to examine precisely and conscientiously any course of action
and then carry it out with mindfulness.

6. to be on guard concerning the karmic consequences of actions,
as if he would protect his own eyes.

7. to be free from duplicity in keeping vows and samaya commitments.

8. not to be prejudiced or false-hearted towards sentient beings.

9. to be forgiving and non-aggressive toward those who do evil.

10. to offer all victories to others and accept all defeats for
oneself.

11. to differ from worldly-minded people in all thoughts and deeds.


(from Precious Garland)