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clw_uk
05 May 11, 19:00
Hey

There is an issue which I have a problem with. Specifically its in relation to the meaning of craving and desire-passion in Buddhadhamma.



Places where they are taught as being different



At Savatthi. "Monks, any desire-passion with regard to craving for forms is a defilement of the mind. Any desire-passion with regard to craving for sounds... craving for aromas... craving for flavors... craving for tactile sensations... craving for ideas is a defilement of the mind. When, with regard to these six bases, the defilements of awareness are abandoned, then the mind is inclined to renunciation. The mind fostered by renunciation feels malleable for the direct knowing of those qualities worth realizing."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn27/sn27.001-010.than.html



"And this, monks, is the noble truth of the origination of stress: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.than.html



To me I understand "Craving" to be different from "delight" since I understand delight to be the result of craving being temporarily satisfied. However how is craving different from passion? To me they are the same thing


Also does this mean that an Arahant would have no craving but still have passion and delight?

Element
05 May 11, 20:57
the Pali is 'nandi-raga'

nandi = delight

raga = lust (lit: "dyed", "coloured", like a cloth is dyed with colour)

to understand the words spoken in the 2nd Noble Truth, please listen to this talk (starts after around 5 minutes):

http://www.liberationpark.org/audio/ntruths/8901-4b.mp3

try to find the time to listen to each talk on the Four Noble Truths (http://www.liberationpark.org/audiox/tanaj01.htm)

this is the only series of talks in the world I know of that explains the Four Noble Truths thoroughly and correctly


Engaged as he is in favoring and opposing, whatever he feels he feels - whether pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant - he delights in that feeling, welcomes it, and remains holding to it. As he does so, delight arises in him. Now delight in feelings is clinging.

http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books9/Bhikkhu_Bodhi_Mahatanhasankhaya_Sutta.htm

;D

Element
05 May 11, 21:00
Also does this mean that an Arahant would have no craving but still have passion and delight?


"What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana-element with residue left.

"Now what, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with no residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant... completely released through final knowledge. For him, here in this very life, all that is experienced, not being delighted in, will be extinguished. That, bhikkhus, is called the Nibbana-element with no residue left.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/iti/iti.2.042-049x.irel.html#iti-044

;D.

Element
05 May 11, 21:12
At Savatthi. "Monks, any desire-passion with regard to craving for forms is a defilement of the mind. Any desire-passion with regard to craving for sounds... craving for aromas... craving for flavors... craving for tactile sensations... craving for ideas is a defilement of the mind. When, with regard to these six bases, the defilements of awareness are abandoned, then the mind is inclined to renunciation. The mind fostered by renunciation feels malleable for the direct knowing of those qualities worth realizing."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit...-010.than.html
hi Craig

This teacing is similar to the Chachakka Sutta: The Six Sextets (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.148.than.html).

These teachings do not pertain to arahants. The teachings pertain to trainees and the lesser enlightened beings, such as stream-enterer, etc.

It means when craving arises, the mind is aware of it, does not delight (indulge) in it, is not coloured, transformed or dominated (impassioned) by it. The mind keeps its clarity and, with mindfulness & wisdom, lets the short burst or arising of craving go.

For example, even though one may be a diligent trainee or a lesser enlightened being, if the eye sees an attractive form, craving or attraction can still arise, because this craving arises so fast. Or if one hears a unpleasant sound, aversion can arise quickly.

Please bear in mind the definition of a once-returner is as follows:


...those monks who have abandoned three fetters and have reduced greed, hatred and delusion, are all once-returners, and, returning only once to this world, will then make an end of suffering.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.022.nypo.html
Yet a once-returner, although "reducing" their greed, hatred & delusion, does not act out remaining greed, hatred & delusion when these defilements arises. They simply watch these defilement arise & pass with mindfulness & clear comprehension.

Regards

;D


“How is this non-grasping and non-clinging to be put into practice?”

IF YOU MEET a person from another country who asks by what means one may practise the essence of Buddhism, you can once again answer by quoting the Buddha. We don’t have to answer with our own ideas. The Buddha explained how to practise in succinct and complete terms.

When seeing a visual object, just see it. When hearing a sound with the ear, just hear it. When smelling an odour with the nose, just smell it. When tasting something by way of the tongue, just taste it. When experiencing a tactile sensation by way of the general skin and body sense, just experience that sensation. And when a mental object, such as some defiling thought, arises in the mind, just know it; know that defiling mental object.

Don’t allow your mental defilements to compel you to grasp and cling. Cultivate enough intelligence to know which line of action is right and appropriate. And if no action is required, ignore the object. If some sort of result is wanted from this thing, then proceed, with full awareness and intelligence, not giving birth to the self-idea. In this way you get the results you wanted and no suffering arises. This is a very concise principle of practice, and it should be regarded as a most excellent one.

http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books5/Buddhadassa_Bhikkhu_Buddha_Dhamma_for_University_S tudents.pdf