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clw_uk
02 Jan 11, 04:04
Hello

In Christianity there is the concept of just war, a similar concept also exists in Islam


I wondered if such a concept could also exist in Buddhism, for example during WW2 would Buddhists or Buddhist countries be justified in going to war with Nazi Germany?

Magga
02 Jan 11, 11:27
I don't think so. But either way, the only war really worth fighting is the war in the heart.

Esho
02 Jan 11, 15:19
I wondered if such a concept could also exist in Buddhism, for example during WW2 would Buddhists or Buddhist countries be justified in going to war with Nazi Germany?

No, I think not. If the case, surly was bacause the temper of those nations, politics and that stuff that means a misconception that could have grown in some traditions (cultural add-ons) that are far from the teachings of the historical Buddha and thus, subject to corruption.

;)

clw_uk
02 Jan 11, 16:18
Would that mean then that we should have sat back and let the holocaust get worse?

Esho
02 Jan 11, 16:47
Would that mean then that we should have sat back and let the holocaust get worse?

No, what is meant is that there is no such idea in the teachings of the historical Buddha. That if there has been such an idea it was because the corruption of the teachings because culture and historical context.

;)

Cobalt
02 Jan 11, 16:57
I think of it sort of the way I think about Right Speech. Right Speech is not always soft speech that makes people feel good. Preferably it would be, but sometimes it isn't always kindest to be soft and passive. Sometimes the Right Action is likewise not always to fold one's hands and let it be.

Disclaimer: My view of this is colored by experiences I've had with people who want so badly for there to be no ill will between them and others that they'll do anything to keep from getting involved in a conflict. I had someone I called a friend who would tell a different story to all parties of a conflict because if they all thought she was "on their side," at least nobody would be upset with her. I know that she was trying to stay friends with everybody, but because she couldn't muster the courage and honesty necessary to take a stand... in reality she was a friend to no one. That experience stays with me whenever I consider standing aside and watching injustice as some kind of morally-superior option.

I guess my final answer is that from what little I have seen of war (and that really just amounts to photos from Abu Ghraib and a letter by a deceased protester in Iran), nothing can excuse it or make it good. Still... genocide is a hell of a thing. I don't think there's ever a just war, but I'm open to the possibility that very occasionally it can be the least unjust of a set of terrible options.

Esho
02 Jan 11, 17:42
Still... genocide is a hell of a thing. I don't think there's ever a just war, but I'm open to the possibility that very occasionally it can be the least unjust of a set of terrible options.

True, I can agree with this but the question is that if there's the concept of Just War in Buddhism. At least there is not such a concept in the teachings of the historical Buddha. I think (maybe I am wrong) that there is not such a concept. For expample, Japan has a long tradition of martial arts because their culture and particular historical context. Zen became corrupted and seems that because of Zen then Japan got into the WWII. Zen is not about that. It's cultural corruption was because historical context, culture and human condition. I think that, because of this corruptions, all present in what is called "traditions", is important to know the teachings of the historical Buddha for those that want to practice what the Buddha taught.


very occasionally it can be the least unjust of a set of terrible options.

This was the option needed to stop the Nazi regimen. But at the end if we do not go to the very source of any kind of -ism that goes through deep lack of understanding of human nature and thus Dukkha, we will be trapped in this kind of solution as history of humankind has been. This is why, also this solution, is not in the teachings of the historical Buddha. If we contemplate that solution, we will been using it endlessly.

;)

Aloka
04 Jan 11, 10:23
It's cultural corruption was because historical context, culture and human condition.

History shows that Buddhist Tibet even had civil war between rival Buddhist sects. (See "The Story of Tibet -Conversations with the Dalai Lama")

and :

"The fifth Dalai Lama is known for unifying the Tibetan heartland under the control of the Gelug school of Tibetan Buddhism, after defeating the rival Kagyu and Jonang sects and the secular ruler, the Tsangpa prince, in a prolonged civil war. His efforts were successful in part because of aid from Gushi Khan, a powerful Oirat military leader. The Jonang monasteries were either closed or forcibly converted, and that school remained in hiding until the latter part of the 20th century."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet

Esho
04 Jan 11, 15:55
History shows that Buddhist Tibet even had civil war between rival Buddhist sects.

Thanks Dazz for your feedback,

;)