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KzBoy
29 Oct 12, 13:28
I Have swore to Buddha that I would not say Bad words again. I am worried that Buddha Will punish me heavily if I said it again. Please give me some suggestions / reply. Thank You. :)

The Thinker
29 Oct 12, 14:48
Hi KzBoy

I cant promise that someone not go to Hell, but in my view you have to do more bad then use bad language or bad words.
If you kill you can end up in Hell.

When it comes to speaking you should always try to think before uttering your opinions or use of bad words.
Just try to follow the buddhist way of being good :)) then i am sure you not end up in Hell :)

Best regards
The thinker

Goofaholix
29 Oct 12, 17:57
The Buddha doesn't punish people and saying bad words won't get you a ticket to hell.

There is cause and affect, if you say bad words (cause) it may influence the way you think and act and the way people perceive you (affect). So it's about getting the result you caused not about punishment.

Just look at the results for yourself and decide whether it's worth it or not, over time you may find your speech and attitude changes.

Leum
29 Oct 12, 18:11
Without knowing what tradition you're in, I can say that in my tradition perfection is something that happens as a result of practice, not something you achieve. Every teacher I've heard talk about the precepts has emphasized that it's impossible to actually keep them perfectly. Which isn't an excuse for not trying, of course.

fletcher
30 Oct 12, 05:19
Where is this place called Hell, I've never met anyone whose been there, have you?

SeeknShinjin
30 Oct 12, 10:32
Me personally from what I've learned from Buddhism and in the Jodo Shinshu tradition, Hell is a state of mind . So as for me I've been to hell more than once in my life. When you become angry about something or someone you are in a hell state of mind, when you are worried about something or someone you are also in a hell state of mind, like wise if things are going your way in life or win some large amount of money or anything we consider good happens to us we are in a heavenly state of mind. The Buddha understood our mind and how we are constantly entering all these states of mind. We cause this suffering in our life and Buddha understood that, but just as we cause our own suffering we can also end it. I hope this helped you. If you have any questions I will do my best to help answer them for you.

Gassho,
:hands:

daveylee
30 Oct 12, 13:59
fletcher: you are spot on!! GREAT POST!!

daveylee
30 Oct 12, 15:15
KzBoy: I do not believe in hell. However; if I am wrong, then surely there is no place in hell for a person such as yourself who is sincere enough to care about your personal life to the point of being concerned about your language.

Peace.

Davey Lee

Blues Man
02 Nov 12, 23:18
It seems that hell can only exist now, as a concept motivated by fear. So, maybe the word "hell", is just another attempt to make that which can't exist byond the ego, into a form? Or it maybe it could be in reference to viewing everything through the filter of fear?

Element
02 Nov 12, 23:49
in Pali, the word for 'hell' is 'niraya', which means the state of 'destruction'. for example, when the mind, in the here & now, falls into a state of suffering, despair, anguish, etc, this is 'hell' or a 'lower realm'. there many visible & experiencable 'hells' in the here & now

KzBoy
05 Nov 12, 08:27
The Buddha doesn't punish people and saying bad words won't get you a ticket to hell.

There is cause and affect, if you say bad words (cause) it may influence the way you think and act and the way people perceive you (affect). So it's about getting the result you caused not about punishment.

Just look at the results for yourself and decide whether it's worth it or not, over time you may find your speech and attitude changes.

Thank You for your opinion. I will try to change with my best. :)

Lancey
04 Dec 12, 16:01
If someone only avoids bad behaviour due to fear of 'hell', that person isn't genuine with it's intentions. Behave because you want to become a better person to yourself and people around you, not because you're avoiding possible punishment.

Yuan
05 Dec 12, 04:33
If someone only avoids bad behaviour due to fear of 'hell', that person isn't genuine with it's intentions. Behave because you want to become a better person to yourself and people around you, not because you're avoiding possible punishment.

There is nothing wrong with following a precept due to fear of 'punishment.' Of course it is better to understand the 'why' of precepts, but by not doing things that leads to 'bad consequences' (regardless of motivation) will give oneself some breathing room to aspire for bigger and better things.

After all, people around you don't know why you stop swearing. They only know you have appeared to have become a more gentle person, and stop avoiding you, give you evil looks, obstruct you...etc. And because of that, you will start to feel better about your choices, about the precepts, about Buddha's teaching and maybe one day, you will aspire to Bodhisattva's vow.

It is OK to take baby steps. We all have to start somewhere.

jonno
09 Dec 12, 21:01
Please please, understand that there is no place called HELL!!!. Hell is just another word for the disturbed state of mind we are in in times of despair. the Buddha said that his teachings did not encompass anything in the supernatural. His teachings were solely concerned with teaching us to develop love and compassion for all beings. Buddha was a man not a supernatural being therefore he cannot PUNISH you in any way. Only you can punish yourself and make yourself suffer.From what I gather from your posts you are a compassionate being who is on the right path. May you continue . Love Jonno

Heid
14 Dec 12, 00:09
My (admittedly limited and new) understanding of it is that Buddhism doesn't come pre-packaged with general do's and don'ts of living. If you behave in a manner that you feel deviates from your own path then it is upto you to decide on the outcome; punishment or otherwise.

It's one of the things that has drawn me to Buddhism in the first place. Not because it gives me carte blanche to do as I please but because it takes the human condition into account (we all make mistakes, we all deviate from time to time...) and I generally don't feel that there is any all-encompassing being (be it Buddha, Yaweh or other) to apologise to for your actions.

ngodngam
14 Dec 12, 03:40
I read many books about the Buddha's life, and has never seen that he punished or even tried to punish anyone.

On the contrary, he taught about law of karma. Doing good thing is a key factor to create good fruit.
Doing bad thing is a key factor to create bad fruit. However, "some" people may view that bad fruit, by law of karma, is punishment to him/her.

For example, if our friend did not say bad words, he should have felt more happier, and probably does not have to open this thread.
This is due to his karma. The Buddha did not involve or would involve in his saying bad words at all.

If he changes his behavior by stopping saying bad words, he should feel more happier. This is also due to his own karma.

The Buddha also was not the one who created the law of karma. Law of karma is the truth. The Buddha saw this truth and taught the people.

Danielle0123
12 Jan 13, 01:45
Element - that is very interesting :)... I think if we look at this on a larger scale, hell would be used more of a scare tactic? Used in attempt to keep those unruly in line? I don't think hell has a place in buddhism, because it is nothing but negativity.

sarahypp
16 Jan 13, 16:47
Dear KzBoy,

First of all, usage of bad words should be avoided at all cost. Out of the 10 conducts of which the Buddha teaches us, 4 of which is related to speech... because through our speech we can bring someone into the Dharma or can put them off from Dharma, therefore the power of speech should never be underestimated.

Secondly, Buddha will not punish you... lol! Buddha is not God or an all creator that will punish you for misconducts... Buddha is compassionate, he will never harm even a strand of hair on you. But karma sees, and karma knows... and karma is equal to all. Karma is the one that you should be worried about, not Buddha punishing you. If you truly have regretted your actions and am truly afraid of going to hell because you firmly believe in it, then your attitude and character will change immediately. The fact that you are still carrying out this act of using bad words shows that you do not truly believe you will go hell for it.

Third, it is a heavier karma to collect when you curse especially after making a promise to an Enlightened being that you will not do so. However, on the bright side, due to this promise, for every moment you do not curse, you collect good karma and merits for upholding this promise.

My suggestion to you is, learn more Dharma. Although I do not have much knowledge, I can tell you that by practicing the Dharma, you will see much change in your mind and see much positive in your life. I usually get my Dharma knowledge from the following websites:

I wish you much luck in your Dharma practice. Remember, only wisdom and knowledge can help us all out of samsara... no amount of promise you make to the Buddha can liberate you... only you can do that yourself.

gogota
16 Jan 13, 22:42
What is hell ?

Christianity and Islam are 2 religion that used fear and human foolishness to control their members. That is why they are so widespread.

Just calm your mind and simply imagine there is no hell and no heaven. Just like what i did when I was trapped inside Christianity. Only you can bring salvation upon yourself. Hope you can free of this suffering. I have been there, not easy to escape also. But thank you John Lennon.

Element
17 Jan 13, 07:26
What is hell ?
Buddha taught 'hell' is a state of acute suffering, self-destruction & anguish.

Like when people get addictions that torment them; like when people go to war & suffer torment, leading to suicide; like being completely heartbroken.

There are so many examples of 'hell' in this very life.

Buddha explained there is a Great Hell that arises & exists in relation to what is seen, heard, smelted, tasted, touched & cognised.

:neutral:

Juniper
21 Jan 13, 00:54
Great post Element! I like the way you have explained this. To some groups of people the idea of heaven and hell has been repeatedly told to them since childhood, therefore, without seeking facts or the truth they have put blind faith that heaven and hell are places people go to after they die. So, I think Fletcher was trying to point out that hell is not a place.

paulokes
21 Jan 13, 21:08
The buddhist teachings I relate to describe Hell as a mental state, in a way which both helps me and matches my experience. Chogyam Trungpa's teaching on the Six Realms has been useful to me. From my experience, I would say that someone can remain in this hell realm for a long time.

I also find the Hell realm is related to hatred, anger and agression (including self-hatred). Right action and right thought would seem to take one away from this. Incidentally I did spend some time caught in addiction (alcohol) and have found that once in these states, negative emotions seem to be magnified.

I have no experience or knowledge of any external realm that one would get sent to.

This is only my thoughts and experience. Others here seem to have a much better understanding of buddhist teachings.

I would add that, in this context, some behaviour can (but does not necessarily) draw one closer ro rhe Hell realm. It seems too simple to say that Hell does not exist, or that our actions have no consequence.

P

Element
22 Jan 13, 03:02
Buddhadasa taught:


Hell is anxiety (in Thai, literally “a hot heart”). Whenever one experiences anxiety, burning and scorching, one is simultaneously reborn as a creature of hell. It is a spontaneous rebirth, a mental rebirth. Although the body physically inhabits the human realm, as soon as anxiety arises the mind falls into hell. Anxiety about possible loss of prestige and fame, anxiety of any sort — that is hell.

Buddha-Dhamma For Students (http://dhammatalks.net/Books5/Buddhadassa_Bhikkhu_Buddha_Dhamma_for_University_S tudents.pdf)

Bundokji
22 Jan 13, 05:04
This thread reminds me of Shunryu Suzuki quote:


Hell is not punishment, it's training

Aloka
22 Jan 13, 05:55
This thread reminds me of Shunryu Suzuki quote:


Hell is not punishment, it's training

Context and source of the quote please, Bundokji.

Bundokji
22 Jan 13, 11:41
Thanks Aloka. The source is from Sunday Lecture dated June 12, 1967. Shunryu Suzuki was talking about the ten prohibitive precepts and how strict they are (as hell) and that its not a punishment, but training.

http://www.shunryusuzuki.com/suzuki/transcripts-pdf/67-pdf/67-06-12U.pdf

If hell is a state of mind, then a Buddhist would see it as a training (how to deal with anger, jealousy, greed), not as a punishment ;D

Aloka
23 Jan 13, 14:07
This is from the transcript of a Sunday Dhamma Talk on Radio Thailand on 28th September 2008, by Ven. Phra Anil Dhammasakiyo.

He's talking about a book which had been previously written by the then 95 year old Supreme Patriarch of Thailand H.H.Somdet Phra Nyanasamvara.




As we are so familiar, in religious sphere, the concept of heaven and hell is a very prominent belief. In many cases, it becomes the goal of religious practice itself.

On this very subject, His Holiness critically analyses that the very concept and belief of heaven and hell in Buddhism is a cultural influence of indigenous culture and belief. He states: (I quote) "the subject of cosmology appeared in Buddhism is clearly can be seen that it is not ‘Buddhist teaching’ at all but an ancient geography.

The concept and belief about it was included in Buddhist Canon merely because of strong influence of popular belief of the time. Later Commentaries further explain about heaven and hell in a greater detail distant itself from the original teaching of the Buddha. If Buddhism teaches such belief on heaven and hell it would not be Buddhism at all but an ancient geography. Buddha wouldn’t be the Buddha who delivered the Noble Truth and ‘timeless’ message for mankind." (end of the quote)

He then shows in his teaching that the concept of heaven and hell in Buddhism are in fact symbolic, representing the quality of mind and spirituality instead. One can be in heaven and hell in this very earth and life. No need to wait until one dies.

http://sangharaja.org/Article/Sunday_Dhamma_Talk_28_Sep_2008_Somdet_Birthday.pdf



Lets hope that teachings like these aren't completely lost to/by the insistent literalists.

:hands:

paulokes
24 Jan 13, 16:37
A question on the suttas. What then is to be made of the very specific wording in the Great Discourse of the Lions Roar?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.012.ntbb.html


6. (1) "I understand hell, and the path and way leading to hell. And I also understand how one who has entered this path will, on the dissolution of the body, after death, reappear in a state of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell.

Aloka
24 Jan 13, 17:14
A question on the suttas. What then is to be made of the very specific wording in the Great Discourse of the Lions Roar?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.012.ntbb.html

The teachings of the Buddha were passed down by monks in an oral tradition until they were written down in Pali in the 1st Century BCE. Other texts and commentaries such as the Visuddhimagga, were added later.

One either takes the above mentioned text literally, or takes into consideration what was said #27 by the Supreme Patriarch (or Sangharaja) who was the head of the order of Buddhist monks in Thailand.


My own opinion about rebirth and other 'realms' is that I don't know for sure one way or the other and that though these beliefs may be useful for the purpose of morality, they make no difference to my own practice in this life here and now.

:hands:

paulokes
24 Jan 13, 19:53
Thanks Aloka,

Similarly I do not hold any knowledge or experience of another realm as mentioned above, so a literal understanding of the sutta seems otherworldly.

Would this be a case where one needs to apply pragmatism, as in the parable of the raft or of teaching with the open hand? To consider only what is useful to practice and leads to the cessation of dukkha?

Regards

P

Element
24 Jan 13, 20:11
I understand hell, and the path and way leading to hell. And I also understand how one who has entered this path will, on the dissolution of the body, after death, reappear in a state of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell.
The language here can be regarded as 'two fold'. It is our choice how we choose to interpret this.

The Buddhist commentaries state:


The Awakened One, best of speakers,
Spoke two kinds of truths:
The conventional and the ultimate.
A third truth does not obtain.

Therein:
The speech wherewith the world converses is true
On account of its being agreed upon by the world.

The speech which describes what is ultimate is also true,
Through characterizing dhammas as they really are.

Therefore, being skilled in common usage,
False speech does not arise in the Teacher,
Who is Lord of the World,
When he speaks according to conventions.

(Mn. i. 95)

'Death' does not need to have the literal sense. For example, in the Dependent Origination, the term 'aging-&-death' does not exclusively refer to the physical body. 'Aging-&-death' can refer to any kind of change or loss that results in suffering (due to attachment to the object of change or loss).

Similarly, the word 'body' is 'kaya', which means 'group' or 'collection'. Thus, it can refer to the certain collection of five aggregates that make up a karmic act.

For example, if a person is high on drugs, their five aggregates are a certain way. Then when the high ends, the five aggregates change. The five aggregates exist in another way, that results in the suffering of the aftermath of drug taking.

Regards

;D