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View Full Version : A few question, I am new here, nice to meet you.



Valujira
22 Oct 12, 16:24
I have a few questions to ask, but before let me introduce myself:
I am over 18, I am speaking English, German, Italian, Polish & Hebrew and study Chinese, I am intrested in Theology and like to read Holy Books of other religious, also I study philosophy, especially the teaching of our Master, I mediate a long time, and might call myself a Boddhisatva even.

I have already passed some small enlightments, I understand the life very deeply, understand the Dukha and also the path to the Sukha.

I would like to ask those:

1. Any good books to study Tibetan?

2. Tibetan is useful? I would like to read some texts, and also to travel to Tibet.

3. Do you know where I can read Tibetan texts? Do you have some names?

4. Would you reccomend me to study Sanskrit? I saw it is hard, but does it worth learning? I know you can read ancient texts with them and also it is THE language of Buddhism, but Tibetan is easier (I guess) and I think every texts from Sanskrit are also in Tibetan, right?

Thank you in advance and it's my pleasure to meet you.

Aloka
22 Oct 12, 16:56
Welcome Valujira !

Your questions are tradition specific so I have move them to the Mahayana forum.





also it is THE language of Buddhism


Not exclusively. The earliest recorded teachings of the Buddha are in Pali in the suttas of the Pali Canon. You might find this site helpful for that:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/help.html#map

with kind wishes

Aloka :hands:

Ngagpa
22 Oct 12, 17:01
Hello Valujira,
Are you wanting to learn the Tibetan language?
are you requesting texts in Tibetan? If you are you may wish to look at the Kangyur (words/teachings of Lord Buddha) and the Tengyur (the treatises and Abhidharma)
If you are requesting the Kangyur or Tengyur in English, I am sorry to say they have not been translated yet!

On the 26th of March, 2009 - Fifty of the world’s leading Buddhist translators and six incarnate lamas, including Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche, pledged to translate, within the next 25 years, Buddha’s core teachings - the Kangyur - from Choekyed into English.
However many Tibetan texts and commentaries are available in English.

Pali is the first language of Buddhism.

Not all scholars agree on the veracity or accuracy of many Tibetan texts and some believe that the tone and context is somewhat changed by the Tibetan mind set.

I do not think that all Sanskrit texts can also be found in Tibetan or Vice-versa.

With respect just a small word of caution in Buddhism whether Theravadin or Vajrayana, claims to realisations/enlightenments are frowned upon for many good reasons.

That said I wish you well and welcome you!

:hands:

Ngagpa
22 Oct 12, 17:04
oops sorry Aloka-D,
posted the above before I saw your post:up2:

Valujira
22 Oct 12, 19:07
Hello Valujira,
Are you wanting to learn the Tibetan language?
are you requesting texts in Tibetan? If you are you may wish to look at the Kangyur (words/teachings of Lord Buddha) and the Tengyur (the treatises and Abhidharma)
If you are requesting the Kangyur or Tengyur in English, I am sorry to say they have not been translated yet!

On the 26th of March, 2009 - Fifty of the world’s leading Buddhist translators and six incarnate lamas, including Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche, pledged to translate, within the next 25 years, Buddha’s core teachings - the Kangyur - from Choekyed into English.
However many Tibetan texts and commentaries are available in English.

Pali is the first language of Buddhism.

Not all scholars agree on the veracity or accuracy of many Tibetan texts and some believe that the tone and context is somewhat changed by the Tibetan mind set.

I do not think that all Sanskrit texts can also be found in Tibetan or Vice-versa.

With respect just a small word of caution in Buddhism whether Theravadin or Vajrayana, claims to realisations/enlightenments are frowned upon for many good reasons.

That said I wish you well and welcome you!

:hands:

Yes I want to learn Tibetan.
Do you know where to find these Texts?I can't find them in Google, do you have a p df file or any other source for them in Tibe tan?
Choekyed is Tibetan right?
Pali is the first? Then why there is such a fuss a round Sanskrit? Why it seems that Sanskrit is the language of Buddhism? Sanskrit is older then Pali.
Can you also explain me the diffrences between The ravadin, Vajrayana etc Buddhism? What are the diff erences between them?

Aloka
22 Oct 12, 19:20
Hi Valujira,

Re #5, I'd be grateful if you would use the regular posting-box font when taking part in a discussion, please. (I also get visual disturbances (migraine) with certain kinds of font and with dense blocks of text on a screen)

You can find out something about the differences between Theravada and Mahayana here:


http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries.com/showthread.php?157-Theravada-Mahayana-Buddhism


:hands:

Leum
22 Oct 12, 19:20
I'm not familiar with Vajrayana beyond knowing that it's the Tibetan school, but my understanding is that Theravada is the last remaining sect of classic Buddhism and uses the Pali canon; it's mostly found in Sri Lanka and Southeast Asia. Mahayana uses additional sutras and has an emphasis on working for the enlightenment of all sentient beings. Mahayana Buddhism also includes faith-based traditions like Pure Land Buddhism. It's mostly found in East Asia.

Aloka
22 Oct 12, 19:42
Why it seems that Sanskrit is the language of Buddhism? Sanskrit is older than Pali


From the Faculty of Oriental Studies at Oxford University UK :





Pali is a Middle Indo-Aryan language of India. It is best known as the language of the earliest extant Buddhist canon, the Pāḷi Canon (Pāḷi: Tipitaka), and as the liturgical language of Theravada Buddhism.

Today Pāli is studied mainly to gain access to Buddhist scriptures, and is frequently chanted in a ritual context. The secular literature of Pāli historical chronicles, medical texts, and inscriptions, is also of great historical importance. The great centers of Pāli learning remain in the Theravada nations of South-East Asia: Myanmar (Burma), Sri Lanka, Thailand, Laos and Cambodia.

http://www.orinst.ox.ac.uk/isa/pali_language.html

Valujira
22 Oct 12, 20:18
I still can't find any site or pdf file of Tengyur and Kangyur in Tibetan, can someone give me a file of it or a site?

Aloka
22 Oct 12, 20:27
I still can't find any site or pdf file of Tengyur and Kangyur in Tibetan, can someone give me a file of it or a site?

This site might be helpful

http://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/canons/kt/about/wiki/tibetan%20canons%20kt%20-%20right2.html

However if you want to learn classical Tibetan, the best place to do so would probably be at classes at your nearest Tibetan Buddhist centre.

Ngagpa
22 Oct 12, 21:05
Valujira,
I have a friend who teaches Tibetan on line and also offers some resources. I will try and contact him in the next few days (I am busy at the moment preparing some classes) My half brother has also been teaching English for some time and he is a fluent Tibetan speaker so I will email him.
As for the Kangyur and Tengyur I will see what I have on file and post it later, however due to the complex technical language of the texts I would suggest this is not an ideal place to start ones enquiries!
The differences between Theravada and Vajrayana depend on who you ask therefore I would suggest doing your own intensive investigations.
Any investigations you do make must be contextualised by a good and extensive grounding in the path taught by Lord Buddha in both an intellectual and experiential mode. Without this grounding one is prone to serious fault and miscomprehension.

I concur with Aloka-D that it might be a good idea to seek out a Tibetan Vajrayana centre for classes and/or guidance.

:hands:

Valujira
22 Oct 12, 21:29
Valujira,
I have a friend who teaches Tibetan on line and also offers some resources. I will try and contact him in the next few days (I am busy at the moment preparing some classes) My half brother has also been teaching English for some time and he is a fluent Tibetan speaker so I will email him.
As for the Kangyur and Tengyur I will see what I have on file and post it later, however due to the complex technical language of the texts I would suggest this is not an ideal place to start ones enquiries!
The differences between Theravada and Vajrayana depend on who you ask therefore I would suggest doing your own intensive investigations.
Any investigations you do make must be contextualised by a good and extensive grounding in the path taught by Lord Buddha in both an intellectual and experiential mode. Without this grounding one is prone to serious fault and miscomprehension.

I concur with Aloka-D that it might be a good idea to seek out a Tibetan Vajrayana centre for classes and/or guidance.

:hands:

Thank you very much, I will wait a week, if I will not see a response I will write here.
I have found on-line some books of teaching Classical Tibetan, such as: Manual of Standard Tibetan, and also Introduction to Classical Tibetan.
I have no Buddhism centers in Israel, sorry.

In the site you gave me (http://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/canons/kt/about/wiki/tibetan%20canons%20kt%20-%20right2.html) I can't find any Tibetan texts

Ngagpa
22 Oct 12, 21:41
Hello Valujira,
Here is a link for learning Tibetan through skype with Erick Tsiknopoulos.

http://sugatagarbhatranslations.com/learn-tibetan-at-home/

I have emailed my brother but he lives in India and I do not expect a response for at least a day.

I will have to plug in my old PC to see what files I have on Kangyur and Tengyur, then I will get back to you.

the site in question (http://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/l...%20right2.html) is not one I suggested or use so I cannot comment.

:hands:

Aloka
22 Oct 12, 21:58
In the site you gave me (http://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/l...%20right2.html) I can't find any Tibetan texts

Oh sorry, it just seems to be lists of texts, I thought that the actual texts were there too if one clicked on the columns on the left:

http://www.thlib.org/encyclopedias/literary/canons/kt/catalog.php#cat=d/k

Valujira
22 Oct 12, 22:04
Do you know any good Tibetan music and artists? I mean I want also traditional Tibetan music and also singer who sing in Tibetan?

Ngagpa
22 Oct 12, 22:06
I hope this may help?

Rigpa Israel ( a contentious group)
tel : +972(0)4 6392744
tel : 054 630636
email : Draicher@gmail.com

Beit Hashita (CMI) (I know nothing of this Sangha)

Tradition: Mahayana
Affiliation: Community of Mindful Living
Phone: 06-6536837
Contact: Anat

Buddhist Group Be´er Sheva

Address: c/o Tal Guri 15/2 Ha\'ayala Street, SR-84736 Beer Sheva National
Tradition: Vajrayana, Tibetan, Karma Kagyu, Diamond Way
E-mail: BeerSheva@diamondway-center.org
Website: http://www.buddhism.org.il

Mandala_Land

Address: Haifa, Yavne, Israel
Tradition: Vajrayana, Tibetan, Buddhism
E-mail: natasha.tsimbler@gmail.com
Website: http://www.dharma-wheel.com

Buddhist Group Jerusalem

Address: c/o Anya Kirzner Hahistadrut 20/7 Jerusalem, 94230
Tradition: Vajrayana, Tibetan, Karma Kagyu, Diamond Way
Phone: +972 (0) 544766872, +972 (0) 527220364
E-mail: Jerusalem@diamondway-center.org
Website: http://www.buddhism.org.il

Buddhist Group Tel Aviv

Address: c/o Alex Yurovsky & Shay Lavi 71/8 ISR-64382 Tel Aviv National Tel Aviv
Tradition: Vajrayana, Tibetan, Karma Kagyu, Diamond Way
Phone: +972 (52) 7467763,
E-mail: TelAviv@diamondway-center.org
Website: http://www.buddhism.org.il

:hands:

Ngagpa
22 Oct 12, 22:10
Do you know any good Tibetan music and artists? I mean I want also traditional Tibetan music and also singer who sing in Tibetan?

Sorry my Tibetan is pitiable and the only songs I recognise or half way know are quite dated and mostly for children:biglol:

:hands:

Valujira
22 Oct 12, 22:11
I live in Rishon le Zion, south of Tel Aviv, I am surprised you know places in Israel.
Why you give me this groups? Why should I go to groups meeting? What are the advantages? Can you give me reasons why to go?

Ngagpa
22 Oct 12, 22:20
Why you give me this groups?

I thought it might be helpful.


Why should I go to groups meeting?

Entirely your choice, however it is more than likely that they will have experienced teachers who speak Tibetan, have access to the Tibetan canon and can answer your questions and queries more proficiently than I!


Can you give me reasons why to go?

Again this is entirely up to you. I would only be reiterating the advantages I gave above.


:hands:

auriga
22 Oct 12, 22:36
On sanskrit, having studied the language, do so if you are interested in learning sanskrit, not because of Buddhism. There are plenty of good translations, which can be collated and compared for nuances. If you are diligent, after about three years of study you will be able to translate on sanskrit paragraph in an hour. I think if Buddhism is your interest, or holy writings in general, your time will be much better spent by persuing the extant translations or seeking out the scholars who are familiar with the more obscure texts which may not yet have been published. Remember one thing: sanskrit was forbidden to ordinary people (san + sacred, krit + writing, sanskrit is sacred writing or writing to be "sung") who were punished by death for learning it. With your experience in Hebrew and diacritical marks you will have a head start, but the written language was kept as deliberately hard to decipher as possible. But, if you like dead languages as much as I do, just to study them, then go for it....I speak 5 languages and have studied more, but nothing as complicated as sankrit.

Valujira
23 Oct 12, 09:12
On sanskrit, having studied the language, do so if you are interested in learning sanskrit, not because of Buddhism. There are plenty of good translations, which can be collated and compared for nuances. If you are diligent, after about three years of study you will be able to translate on sanskrit paragraph in an hour. I think if Buddhism is your interest, or holy writings in general, your time will be much better spent by persuing the extant translations or seeking out the scholars who are familiar with the more obscure texts which may not yet have been published. Remember one thing: sanskrit was forbidden to ordinary people (san + sacred, krit + writing, sanskrit is sacred writing or writing to be "sung") who were punished by death for learning it. With your experience in Hebrew and diacritical marks you will have a head start, but the written language was kept as deliberately hard to decipher as possible. But, if you like dead languages as much as I do, just to study them, then go for it....I speak 5 languages and have studied more, but nothing as complicated as sankrit.
Yes, I do intrested in ancient languages, but what is your opinion about Tibetan? You think it is easier? I think Tibetan is better because you have people who speak Tibetan and also ancient texts written in Tibetan.
Ngagpa, does Erick take charge or money for his lessons?

auriga
23 Oct 12, 14:47
Yes, I do intrested in ancient languages, but what is your opinion about Tibetan? You think it is easier? I think Tibetan is better because you have people who speak Tibetan and also ancient texts written in Tibetan.

I have no knowledge of Tibetan, but that sounds reasonable to me. In fact it sounds quite difficult!

My view on the general topic is that dedicated study of the original source documents might provide some better insight than reading other people's translations. But I don't really know since I use translations and oral teachings, rather than the source documents.

In zen at least, we tend to look less toward conceptual knowledge of the scriptures and doctrine and more toward "direct understanding" through meditation and interaction with a teacher. The teachings are still fundamental though, and I personally would be quite lost without them.

I am sure there are very different viewpoints depending on who you talk with and what traditions they follow.

Valujira
23 Oct 12, 20:25
I have no knowledge of Tibetan, but that sounds reasonable to me. In fact it sounds quite difficult!

My view on the general topic is that dedicated study of the original source documents might provide some better insight than reading other people's translations. But I don't really know since I use translations and oral teachings, rather than the source documents.

In zen at least, we tend to look less toward conceptual knowledge of the scriptures and doctrine and more toward "direct understanding" through meditation and interaction with a teacher. The teachings are still fundamental though, and I personally would be quite lost without them.

I am sure there are very different viewpoints depending on who you talk with and what traditions they follow.

So you think Tibetan is harder than Sanskrit?

Ngagpa
23 Oct 12, 22:02
Ngagpa, does Erick take charge or money for his lessons?

Sorry Valujira I do not know. If you email (email at the link I provided) he will tell you.
I have heard good reports of his Tibetan (translation and teaching)

:hands:

auriga
23 Oct 12, 23:19
So you think Tibetan is harder than Sanskrit?

I'm completely ignorant of Tibetan.

Valujira
24 Oct 12, 18:08
Sorry Valujira I do not know. If you email (email at the link I provided) he will tell you.
I have heard good reports of his Tibetan (translation and teaching)

:hands:

So you have Kangyur and Tengyur texts to hand me over? I really want to see them, a pdf file will be perfect, and if you know more tibetan texts expect from Tengyur and Kangyur, give me their names and also links to them

Graham Doke
29 Oct 12, 13:28
To add to the linguistic thoughts, there are prevailing theories - I believe from an Oxford study, which I will try to unearth - that Sanscrit is the natural language of the human being, in that if we started afresh, we would develope Sanscrit. Not innate, exactly, simply natural. Thoughts? Graham Doke (I am new, do I sign these like that?... Oh, well.)