Difficulty with Za-zen

[justinhayes1982]

Greetings,

I have been practicing Za-zen for about a month now and recently have begun having difficulties. I watched this video for instruction, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL2XUTeoUsM&feature=related and was instructed that my exhalation should be 8 - 10 seconds long. Sometimes I feel as if my breathing is being forced when I draw out my exhalation for that long. Then my mind begins telling me that I'm not breathing right, which disrupts my practice. I try to let the thoughts just go, but I find myself caught up in thought patterns and internal dialogue.

I have been diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and was really drawn to Buddhism in the beginning because it really helped me control my anxiety. I learned through guided meditations and then moved onto visualization, progressive relaxation, compassionate heart meditations, focus shifting exercises, and meditations to help calm turbulent emotions. These meditations are highly effective for me, but I would like to learn in the Zen tradition, because ultimately I wish to attain liberation from my suffering. Everyone I've asked has told me to stick with the Za-zen. I'm just wondering when I will start to feel the full benefits of it. I guess the meditations I've practiced in the past seem to specifically address the short-term suffering I experience whereas Za-zen is more of a long term path. I would like to hear some others' stories about their experiences as beginners with Za-zen.

With Metta,

Justin

[fletcher]

Justin

I'm far from being an expert in these matters but I would suggest you just breathe naturally. Try googling Shikantaza ( just sitting ).

Gassho,
Gary

[Aloka]

These meditations are highly effective for me, but I would like to learn in the Zen tradition, because ultimately I wish to attain liberation from my suffering.


Hi Justin,

The best way to learn Zazen would be to see if you can find a local Zen group. Is this not possible?

You could try using Buddhanet's worldwide search facility to look for the nearest Zen centre or group.

http://www.buddhanet.info/wbd/


with kind wishes,

Aloka

[Element]

I learned through guided meditations and then moved onto visualization, progressive relaxation, compassionate heart meditations, focus shifting exercises, and meditations to help calm turbulent emotions. These meditations are highly effective for me...
hi Justin

i listened to the video yesterday. the Zen monk is instructing a direct breathing technique, emphasising mental connection with the exhalation, to calm the mind (rather than a moral, metta or wisdom technique to calm the mind). a lot of mental relaxation can certainly be found by connecting with the exhalation

essentially, the Zen monk's technique is a form of pranayama (breath control) rather than simple awareness of breathing

i think such a technique must be done very very gently & with great care, keeping the physical body very relaxed, and kind of 'gently willing' the relaxing & slowing of the exhalation with the mind (rather than using any muscles of the body)

i think one must especially ensure the throat remains relaxed so the final part of the exhalation flows out fine & gently

similarly, when the in breath fills up the body again, awareness must be at the throat to ensure the in breath flows gently & finely through the throat, rather than have the body fill up with air too quickly

if too much oxygen is created then dizzyness or mental instability may occur, as you mentioned in your post

in all honesty, i think if the instruction is to be practised, it should be experimented with very sparingly

at least in (Hindu) hatha yoga, pranayama (breath control) is only to be practised with a 'qualified' teacher. pranayama (breath control) can potentially be very harmful (which is explained in detail in the world's most famous yoga book: Light on Yoga: BKS Iyengar: page 44 of the introduction).

***

that said, my understanding of Zen practise is it is 'just sitting'. 'just sitting' is 'just' sitting (rather than controlling breathing)

to be frank, personally, i would not encourage following that You Tube video. it seems your own discomfort with trying to practise the video affirms my opinion. there is nothing particular in the video which will lead to liberation from suffering or instructs the essence of Zen practise

in Buddhism, regardless of the school, the general instruction is mere awareness of natural breathing

kind regards

element

;D

[Esho]

Hello Justin,

I couldn't understand what the Roshi was talking about because it was -I think- in Japanise language.

Zazen is the core teaching Soto Zen tradition. So, it is needed some guidance by a Roshi at a meditation hall.

The experience I had with zazen is to sit, to ease the mind counting breathing with no effort toward it. Once this has been reached just watch how thoughts -fabrications- arise and fade with out harm.

I encourage you to look at a dojo -Zazen meditation hall- go there and have advice from an experienced Roshi in the original technique of Dogen Zengi, that is, 'Just Sitting'.

Until then:

Sit in a proper posture (http://www.shastaabbey.org/pdf/postures.pdf)

Be relaxed.

Ease your mind watching the in and our of breathing. At the beginning count the in and out of breathing from 1 to 9 forth and back. One for 'in'; two for 'out'; and thus, up to nine. If the count is lost, start again from one.

After a while you will start watching how thoughts arise and fade in the mind without harm.

If you get entangled with them, letting them go, return again to breathing any time you need to ease the mind. Count 1 to 9 if it is necessarily.

As you advance in Zazen you will see no entanglements with thoughts and no need to return to count the in and out breathing.

As you keep this progress, the gap between thoughts will become more and more evident stilling the mind.

As you keep this progress there will be no need to count the 'in' and the 'out' of breath.

Anxiety is a manifestation of mental torment because we get caught into thoughts and we do not let them go.

Zazen is about letting go with no harm.

Here is the the teaching of Dogen Zengi about Zazen:

'Bendowa or The Practice of the Way of Buddhas' (http://www.shastaabbey.org/pdf/shobo/001bendo.pdf)

Here another approach to Zazen called Serene Reflexion Meditation:

Serene Reflexion Meditation (http://www.shastaabbey.org/teachings-meditation.html)

My advice is to do zazen as simple as possible. Just sit and watch how thoughts arise and fade without trace in the mind.

:meditate:

[justinhayes1982]

Thank you all so much! Your responses have truly enhanced and helped my understanding tremendously. I am so grateful for the kindness and generosity.

With metta,

Justin

[Esho]

Thank you all so much!

With metta,

Justin

You are welcome Justin,

;D

[Traveller]

I can't really elaborate on Esho's excellent advice but you might find this video useful Justin.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJ_wbjBL6c