Uncontrollable Anger

[chrisfraas]

I have a permanent hormone imbalance, and am taking medication to help equalize this.
The problem is, right before I need a shot, or right after I get one, I get a drop or surge in hormones, taking the expected toll on my emotions -- specifically anger.

I meditate daily. Study regularly. Chant to myself. Watch videos of HHDL online. Get constant daily email quotes from teachers and other Buddhists. Eat well -- I'm a vegetarian. Exercise regularly ... all the stuff my doctors have suggested (anti-depressants and/or mood stabilizers have little to no effect).

So even though I feel out of control anger-wise -- I just get angry, I don't get violent or throw things or hit people or anything like that -- I feel the only solution is me. I don't know what else I can do to help calm my anger, though.

Any thoughts?

Namaste.
Chris

[Deshy]

My thoughts are that our bodies are not within our control as much as we like to think they are. Trying to control an imbalance like this is quite similar to controlling cancer, because the causes are purely biological. I guess all you can do in this situation is try and rest with the feelings - accept it rather than build up aversion towards it. So when you are angry, accept you are angry and wait till the imbalance is resolved by medicine.

[Cal55]

Obviously taking all the professional advice and treatment is paramount if this has a medical root cause.

As someone who also seems to be naturally an angry person, I have carried much guilt, aversion and self-hatred because of it. I'm pretty sure it was Ajahn Sumedho who I once heard say that he was also naturally an angry person (something which now seems pretty unbelievable). What I took from his talk was that anger, while not an easy defilement to deal with, is also pretty difficult to overlook and so provides much scope for practice and learning to see that getting involved in the anger leads to your own further suffering.

I don't mean this to be glib, and I wouldn't like to give the impression that I've got it cracked. I guess I find it easier to let go now that I see how it perpetuates suffering. Also meditation and mindfulness practice often gives a moment of choice before the anger.

Best wishes
Cal

[Bopshibobshibop]

You deserve a lot of credit for recognizing the problem, not identifying too much with your anger, and asking for advice.

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth (not much, but then it's free ;) )

Anger is a feeling. Speech is a behavior. So is flinging crockery, etc., if you're doing that.

Anger is essentially involuntary. In the long run, you can adjust your expectations, habits of thinking and so on, so you are less angry, less often. In the short run, feeling angry is sort of like feeling hot in the summer time. You can't just decide not to feel hot. It won't do any good. In the short run, if you feel angry, you feel angry. You can't decide not to.

However, you can decide to refrain from angry speech and angry actions. It's not so easy. Maybe like trying not to scratch an itch. The desire to scratch can be very strong, but you can still decide not to. The desire to say angry things, or do angry things, can also be very strong. Like itches, angry feelings will gradually dissipate. It takes awhile -- longer than an itch. Itches come back, now and then, so do angry feelings.

The ability to withhold angry speech or actions when you feel angry is a useful life skill, whether you're a Buddhist or not.

If you know how to meditate, you're already halfway there. You know how to sit still when you get an impulse to get up. You know how to remain silent during meditation, when you get an impulse to chatter. Withholding angry speech when you feel angry is much the same, except you might not be sitting in meditation when it happens.

Good luck with it. Let us know how it works out.

Bopshi

[Element]

hi Chris

i concur with the kind advice provided by Bopshi. recognizing the conditions when anger will arise and then recognizing when it will cease is a starting point for some control, endurance & perspective

may you find wellness & ease

element

[Twinkie]

Hi Chris
I too, commend you for not taking your anger out on others.

I watched a sticky on this forum suggesting we grasp our anger, really feel it, then think some nice thoughts and direct kindness thoughts towards others---------something like that;I tried it with agitation and it helped a bit..........:up2:

[Tony]

For most of my life I have Mr. Angry. Then I discovered the cause....a mixture of not satisfied with the world the way it was, and intelligence! The world can never be perfect, but the reflection of that...is!


Tony

[Deshy]

I wonder, if anger or any other feeling in an extreme level is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, then the causes are physical. Can you prevent such feelings just through mind control. When you are pinched you feel pain...

[Cal55]

Some good, helpful answers. In my less than coherent previous attempt I was trying to suggest that it's really the attitude to the anger (or other emotion/pain/whatever) that makes a difference. It seems to me helpful to see it as something to work with, rather than a problem or something to suffer from.


I When you are pinched you feel pain...
Indeed. But for me minor pain, particularly cramp after meditation, has been a great teacher. Just allowing a cramp to do its thing, rather than tensing up (or hopping around the room as previously ;D) usually lets it subside without fuss. I realised that I had just changed my attitude to allowing it to be, rather than resisting and being averse to the pain.

I'm hopeful of achieving a similar co-existence with feelings of anger (and not doing the equivalent of hopping round the room). In this case, I think (perhaps like Tony) much of my anger has come from an expectation that things should be 'fair', which is of course nonsense.

Just my musings.

Best wishes
Cal

[Deshy]

.
In this case, I think (perhaps like Tony) much of my anger has come from an expectation that things should be 'fair', which is of course nonsense.



This topic intrigues me because the OP is referring to a chemical imbalance in the body (physical cause) rather than perceptions such as "things should be fair" (mental), which is the cause of his anger. Can unwholesome mental qualities arise purely based on physical causes? I have asked this question before but didn't get a satisfactory answer.

P.S: maybe I am asking the wrong forum because even within the medical community, this hypothesis seems to be still debated and not negatively or positively proven

[Bopshibobshibop]

This topic intrigues me because the OP is referring to a chemical imbalance in the body (physical cause) rather than perceptions such as "things should be fair" (mental), which is the cause of his anger. Can unwholesome mental qualities arise purely based on physical causes? I have asked this question before but didn't get a satisfactory answer.

Interesting question, Deshy. However, in my opinion, it's a false distinction. Some engineers and mathematicians employ the expression "An ill-posed question." In other words, some questions guarantee misleading or confusing answers.

When you sneeze, it's not only physical, or only mental. Its cause is not simply external (pollen or dust) or simply internal (a reflex). It's all of the above.

To take a racier example -- an orgasm. Is it emotional? Yes. Is it physical? Yes. Is it behavioral? Yes. Is it about love? Yes. Is it about sex? Yes. Is it electrical activity in the brain? Yes. Is it chemical activity in the brain? Yes. Is it voluntary? Yes, to some degree. Is it involuntary? Yes, to some degree. Is it brain activity? Yes. Is it bodily activity? Yes. Is it hormonal? Yes.

The same general principle applies to anger, I think. We never know all the reasons we got angry at one time, but not another, with one person, but not another, and so on. There's lots of science on questions like this one. If your arthritic toe hurts a bit more than usual, even if you don't notice it, you might be more prone to anger. If there's a slight bad smell in the air, even if you don't notice it, you're more prone to anger. And so on.

These are examples of "dependent origination," if I'm not mistaken.

Just my opinion, though I do know some of the science behind this question.

Cheers,

Bopshi

[Trilaksana]

Even if a chemical imbalance is involved I think thoughts generally are what cause anger. The chemical imbalance may affect our thoughts but I still think it can be controlled. You should observe the your thought process surrounding your anger find the cause and seek to remove it from your way of thinking.

[Deshy]

Interesting question, Deshy. However, in my opinion, it's a false distinction. Some engineers and mathematicians employ the expression "An ill-posed question." In other words, some questions guarantee misleading or confusing answers.

I think an ill-posed question is one producing different answers in different contexts or for different data.

Anyway, your answer is "No, there cannot be unwholesome mental qualities arising purely based on physical causes because it is a mixture of both physical and mental" Am I right?

[Deshy]

Even if a chemical imbalance is involved I think thoughts generally are what cause anger. The chemical imbalance may affect our thoughts but I still think it can be controlled. You should observe the your thought process surrounding your anger find the cause and seek to remove it from your way of thinking.

Just to clarify, I am not referring to anger but unwholesome mental qualities in general. I don't think a chemical imbalance can be resolved by mind control. Just as cancer cannot be controlled by the mind. However, I agree that you can learn not to build up aversion towards it.

[Deshy]

These are examples of "dependent origination," if I'm not mistaken.



DO refers to a mental process.

[Bopshibobshibop]

Anyway, your answer is "No, there cannot be unwholesome mental qualities arising purely based on physical causes because it is a mixture of both physical and mental" Am I right?


Yes, that's my opinion, for what it's worth. I probably should have said the short version in the first place.

You agree?

Cheers,

Bopshi

[Twinkie]

Hi Deshy.
My doctor says that depression has a chemical base.

Rather than take anti-depressants I choose meditation and cognative therapy, at least while things aren't too bad..........................:hands:

[Deshy]

Yes, that's my opinion, for what it's worth. I probably should have said the short version in the first place.

You agree?



Frankly, I don't know. You could be right. Whether or not unwholesome mental qualities can arise in some individuals predominantly because of their genetic structure is a question I have. However, this topic is not something for this forum since most us here do not have much understanding of the internal biology of the human body or nero activities. I must also add that not even the medical community has a definite answer to this. I am also not suggesting that for a person with such an imbalance, Buddhist practice is futile.

[Stormsy]

Try to understand where I'm coming from. The body and mind are two very separate and dissimilar things. You can train them to become one. I believe any chemical balance or "disease" wrong with you can be canceled out by thoughts alone. Don't picture yourself as an angry person, but see yourself as the person you'd like to be. Eventually, rigorous, positive thoughts will channel into your being. You have nothing to lose. :]

[Deshy]

I believe any chemical balance or "disease" wrong with you can be canceled out by thoughts alone.

That's not true Stormsy. The body is rupa element in nature and mind merely arises based on the body. Even the Buddha got sick and eventually died. Physical imbalances cannot be resolved by the mind but you can practice not to build up aversion towards it. You are confusing not building up aversion towards an imbalance to resolving the imbalance itself.