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clw_uk
07 Jun 10, 15:31
In my reading of the suttas I have not come across an instance where the Buddha teaches puja or chanting of suttas as a means of overcoming dukkha. Unless I have missed the sutta (or forgotten it) would this mean that such practices dont lead to nibbana


Also if these things were not taught by Buddha, where do they come from?



metta

srivijaya
07 Jun 10, 21:02
I may be wrong, as I'm no scholar, but weren't the Pali suttas initially passed down orally? Didn't certain monks have to learn them by heart and recite them correctly?

clw_uk
07 Jun 10, 21:12
Yes thats true but this was just done to preserve the teaching. My question is if such practices and other devotional rituals are helpful to understanding the four noble truths or not


metta

srivijaya
07 Jun 10, 21:16
Wouldn't preserving the teaching by chanting qualify as a means (indirectly perhaps) to help overcome dukkha etc.?

Sobeh
07 Jun 10, 21:34
Distinguish between 'chanting' and 'reciting'.



"Bhikkhus, there are five dangers of reciting the Dhamma with a musical intonation. What five?

"Oneself gets attached to the sound, others get attached to the sound, householders are annoyed saying, 'Just as we sing, these sons of the Sakyan sing', the concentration of those who do not like the sound is destroyed, and later generations copy it.

"These, monks, are the five dangers of reciting the Dhamma with a musical intonation."

Note that poetry is not condemned in this fashion, and the canon is replete with verses. Bhikkhu Bodhi mentions in the introduction to the Vangisasamyutta that "the bhikkhu Vangisa was declared by the Buddha the foremost disciple of those gifted with inspirational speech (patibhanavantanam, at AN I 24,21). This title accrued to him on account of his skill in composing spontaneous verse."

Element
08 Jun 10, 19:42
Interesting. http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries.com/images/smilies/grin.gif

srivijaya
08 Jun 10, 20:03
Yes, good post Sobeh.