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david002
20 Nov 11, 17:21
I appreciate everyones advice and encouragement from my thread about asking if I am too immoral to be a Buddhist. I now know from what I have been told by you guys that I am not too immoral to be a Buddhist.

I have a question though. I was afraid of asking it on the previous thread, because I was worried that it would go unnoticed. I am sorry if i'm putting too many threads out there. I will stop after this one for a while.

I cursed by saying something like "f Buddha" or "f Buddhism" and I threw my book from what I remember. My question is would Buddha forgive me for saying "f you" to him?

I know that I can learn more about Buddhism and eventually become "Buddhist" because of the helpful answers I got from my previous post about possibly being too immoral.

I am just wondering if it is possible or logical for me to be able to love the Buddha and learn Buddhism after using profanity against Buddha and Buddhism.

If this is repetition please forgive me. I just have a lot of anxiety. Is my seeking forgiveness guilt from when I used to be a Christian?

Thank you for anyone who has read this.

Aloka
20 Nov 11, 17:50
My question is would Buddha forgive me for saying "f you" to him?



Hi david,

A former murderer called Angulimala became a student of the Buddha and took ordination with him, so I'm sure he'd have forgiven you for saying the F word ! ;)


http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/disciples10.htm

.

soundtrack
20 Nov 11, 18:04
I cursed by saying something like "f Buddha" or "f Buddhism" and I threw my book from what I remember. My question is would Buddha forgive me for saying "f you" to him?
He "forgave" murderers and helped them become arahants (fully enlightened human beings). You have nothing to worry about.


I am just wondering if it is possible or logical for me to be able to love the Buddha and learn Buddhism after using profanity against Buddha and Buddhism.
People have never been asked to love the Buddha. And the fact he's dead now makes it hard to do so anyway. You'll never see his face and he'll never even know you existed.


If this is repetition please forgive me. I just have a lot of anxiety. Is my seeking forgiveness guilt from when I used to be a Christian?
My seeking forgiveness is guilt from when I used to be a Christian. You just answered your own question.

Welcome to Buddhism. :peace:

Esho
20 Nov 11, 18:14
I am just wondering if it is possible or logical for me to be able to love the Buddha and learn Buddhism after using profanity against Buddha and Buddhism.

David, what has happend is that the mind was in a state of anger.

Buddha is not looking at you.

Buddha is in the Dhamma. He left the teachings to put them into practice.

The Buddha is full of compassion.

You can call him what ever thousand of times. His compassion is limitless.

He taught us that it is all about mind states.

A state of anger, hate and ill will brings you suffering and stress. It is not about Buddha but you.


If this is repetition please forgive me. I just have a lot of anxiety.

No problem David.

When there is such a state of anger or anxiety, try to breath deep and slow for a moment and be aware of how negative emotions fade away. :flower:


Thank you for anyone who has read this.

No problem David.

Please keep asking. :hug:

Karma
20 Nov 11, 18:59
No, because there is nothing to forgive. You had a thought in your head and you reacted to it and you are now suffering over it. This it pretty much what Buddhism is about, the Buddha would have been happy that you have begun on you journey. Try to learn the basics and don't start by taking the subject to seriously. Brad Warner is a 40 something Zen Priest and if you read his Facebook page you might think he was a teenage boy with a teenage boys humour, it's not all about the po-faced. Buddhism can be for everyone and can be fun

ratikala
20 Nov 11, 20:52
I have a question though. I was afraid of asking it on the previous thread, because I was worried that it would go unnoticed.
My question is would Buddha forgive me for saying "f you" to him?

yes , most certainly , and in the same way jesus forgave , the buddha would allso forgive .


I know that I can learn more about Buddhism and eventually become "Buddhist" because of the helpful answers I got from my previous post about possibly being too immoral.

I know you can too , why do I say that I know ? simply because many of us here chose buddhism as a way of making our lives more managable , a way of finding calm in a crazy world , becoming better people , the people we would rather be , it dosent happen over night but for you it will start with simply forgiving your self for being human .,


in buddhism there is a lot of emphasis on compassion , that means understanding human frailtys , It is possible in times of stress for any of us to become angry , and maybe swear and curse , you are not the only one to have human frailtys !


I am just wondering if it is possible or logical for me to be able to love the Buddha and learn Buddhism after using profanity against Buddha and Buddhism.

compleatly possible , compleatly logical ;D if you read buddhas teachings and find much to be appreciative of , then love for buddha will naturaly come , in the same way that we appriciate and love our dearest friends .


If this is repetition please forgive me. I just have a lot of anxiety. Is my seeking forgiveness guilt from when I used to be a Christian?

prehaps it is , but buddhism is not like christianity buddhism advocates a more gentle approach without the need for guilt , I know that it is hard to break old habits , and feeling guilt may just have become a habit , try to let go , try to relax a little , try the most basic breathing meditation, try to replace the old habit with a new habit ,

can I ask which kind of buddhism appeals to you most ?
what you have read , and what you found most helpfull ?

with best wishes

namaskars :hands: ratikala

david002
20 Nov 11, 21:54
Wow.

That is the first word that came to my mind. I am telling the truth when I say that you guys are so much more forgiving and warm than most of the Christians that I have ever known. I only compare the way you react to me to Chrstianity because I used to be a devout Christian and I never was treated with as much kindness as I have been treated with by you guys.

I am not used to not being judged. Aloka-D, soundtrack, Kaarine, Karma, and ratikala, thank you all so very much for the very helpful and encouraging responses to what I said.

All of your comments helped me. I have not mentioned this before but I would like to share that I do suffer from an anxiety disorder. I think that part of the reason I have been obsessing over being too immoral or being unforgivable has a lot to do with this mental illness that I have. I have what is called Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I have it under control now for the most part. I was diagnosed about 7 years ago. I started to notice it when I was around age 18 and now I am 25 years old.

OCD makes the sufferer have what is called pathological doubt. I doubt a lot of things. I have gotten a lot better though. I used to be very mentally ill from it.

An example of how I still get nagged by OCD would be, I feel assured now that the "f you thought" about Buddha would be forgiven. My mind popped up with something like "well what if you called Buddhism "bull sh" instead of the "f you" thought. Then my mind starts reeling over whether or not Buddha would forgive me saying that Buddhism is "bull sh".

I know that this is silly. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is always very silly and makes no sense. I just wanted to share this with all of you so that you would better understand why I worry so much. I hope that makes sense. One reason i'm so attracted to Buddhism is because I have mediated before and it calmed me so much. However, I havn't done breathing meditation in a long time.

ratikala,

I want to answer your questions.

I am honestly not sure what kind of Buddhism appeals to me the most. I do think Zen Buddhism seems interesting because I love Japan and am currently studying Japanese. I do not know which type of Buddhism is best for me. I am very open to any suggestions ;D

The only book that I have read a lot of is this book by a woman named Jacky Sach. The book is called, The Everything Buddhism Book.

This is the same book that I think I threw when I got mad that one time.

I hope my message is not confusing. If it is then please ask me to clarify. I feel very lucky to have met such nice people as all of you. Thank you very much for all of your encouragement and advice.

I hope that I have not taken too long to respond.

Aloka
20 Nov 11, 22:10
I hope my message is not confusing. If it is then please ask me to clarify. I feel very lucky to have met such nice people as all of you. Thank you very much for all of your encouragement and advice.

I hope that I have not taken too long to respond.

Your post isn't confusing, David, and thank you very much for your kind words about us -and you haven't taken too long to respond !

Its probably a good idea to familiarise yourself with the basics of Buddhism first and so I recommend this short MP3 to listen to - and you can read the text at the same time.

"What is Buddhism ?"

http://www.dhammasukha.org/Study/Talks/Transcripts/WHAT-MAR03-TS.htm

with kind wishes,

Aloka ;D

Esho
20 Nov 11, 23:49
The only book that I have read a lot of is this book by a woman named Jacky Sach. The book is called, The Everything Buddhism Book.

This is the same book that I think I threw when I got mad that one time.

David,

In this forum, particularly, you can ask for beginners material so to be well started in the general teachings of Buddha.

This idea come to mind:

You can give a try to Thich Nhat Hanh Books.

He is not my favourite but he has a lot of wisdom and compassion in his writings.

He has done good to many people and his teachings are a good introduction to the Buddha's.

A highly recommendable option: "The Way It Is" by Ajahn Sumedho (http://www.amaravati.org/documents/the_way_it_is/cont.html)

He is an excelent teacher. Plain and simple. No sins. No regret. No remorse.

:flower:

david002
21 Nov 11, 00:20
Aloka-D, I will make sure to read and listen to "What is Buddhism?" Thank you for telling me about that. It makes perfect sense to me that I should learn about the basics of Buddhism first. I appreciate your guidance.

Kaarine, I personally love what I have read by Thich Nhat Hanh. I have only read I think part of, "Living Buddha, Living Christ". I do not own the book. I respect that he is not your favorite. To be honest I do not know who my favorite would be considering I am so new to Buddhism.;D

My grandparents gave me a gift card to Barnes and Noble for my birthday I think. I havn't used it yet. I am unemployed so I might not be able to get many books until possibly with the upcoming holidays I could just ask for a gift card. I could possibly find a good book about Buddhism at Barnes and Noble though. Is there a particular Thich Nhat Hanh book that you would recommend? I am open to anyones advice. I appreciate all of the help.

I will look up, "The Way It Is" by Ajahn Sumedho. Thank you Kaarine for telling me about it.

I really feel the need to ask this and if it is too far off of the topic of this thread I apologize. I hope it isn't.

I am wondering, how exactly does a person become a Buddhist? Before when I was interested in Buddhism I was in contact with a local Buddhist group. I am not sure what tradition they were. I think a person from that group told me that to become a Buddhist you need to say something officially. (I can't remember what it was something like) Buddha is my refuge? I think there was more to it than that. I think she said I needed to do it at a meeting that they were going to have with a foreign Buddhist leader of the particular type of Buddhism they practiced. I don't know if i'm making much sense. It is hard for me to remember exactly what I was told.

I am confused about how a person becomes a Buddhist. I know I need to learn more anyway but I just am very curious. I really want to learn more about Buddhism. If interest continues which I think it will I would really like to become a Buddhist, but I don't know how to. Or maybe you have to become a Buddhist by joining a particular kind of Buddhism?

I hope it is appropriate for me to ask these questions here. Thanks again.

Yuan
21 Nov 11, 00:42
I am confused about how a person becomes a Buddhist. I know I need to learn more anyway but I just am very curious. I really want to learn more about Buddhism. If interest continues which I think it will I would really like to become a Buddhist, but I don't know how to.

You can be a Buddhist by just acting like one. You don't have to do any of the rituals, rituals just affirm your commitment to a particular teacher. There is no single authority that says you are or you are not a Buddhist.

Go learn about Buddhism and what its about first. And don't just read modern writings, read the original sutra as well, and think about the contents. Find some practices that you can try, and try them. Ask questions.

Esho
21 Nov 11, 00:51
To be honest I do not know who my favorite would be considering I am so new to Buddhism.


Is there a particular Thich Nhat Hanh book that you would recommend? I am open to anyones advice. I appreciate all of the help.

Any book from him is a good one. Reading thoroughly one, the others are around the same basic issue.

The ones that most caught my attention are: "Anger", "The Heart of the Buddha's Teachings" and "No Death, No Fear"


I will look up, "The Way It Is" by Ajahn Sumedho. Thank you Kaarine for telling me about it.

You are welcome David ;D


Buddha is my refuge? I think there was more to it than that.

Maybe is to take refuge in the Sangha, the Buddha and the Dhamma.

When I was into Zen I never did it officially.

After leaving Zen, my heart and my entire being took refuge in Buddha and the Dhamma when I found the Pali Teachings; the discourses of Buddha.

No need to make anything officially. It is your heart that does that. Not a rite.

I haven't took refuge in Sangha just because where I live there isn't the tradition that resonates deep.


Or maybe you have to become a Buddhist by joining a particular kind of Buddhism

Being into a Sangha surrounded by people that has the same need as you to embrace Buddha teachings is always a very good step.

But first take your time exploring and attending different groups to see where and with whom, your heart resonates deep and your mind is at peace with life.


I hope it is appropriate for me to ask these questions here. Thanks again.

Yes. Beginners Forum is the place for getting started. At least the idea is to give the possible best advice from advanced members, so to help someone to be well started into Buddhism, David.

;D

JSmusiqalthinka
21 Nov 11, 01:24
I think a person from that group told me that to become a Buddhist you need to say something officially. (I can't remember what it was something like) Buddha is my refuge? I think there was more to it than that. I think she said I needed to do it at a meeting that they were going to have with a foreign Buddhist leader of the particular type of Buddhism they practiced. I don't know if i'm making much sense. It is hard for me to remember exactly what I was told.

There actually is something in some Buddhist (usually Zen) traditions called "Jukai", which is a formal public initiation ritual in which the person being initiated takes refuge in what is called the "Triple Jewell", or pledging to take refuge in the Buddha (the ideal), the Dharma (teachings), and the Sangha (community).

However, in order to begin practicing the teachings, there is no confirmation or conversion ritual or anything like that. There's also no real binding commitment once you step in. You can test the waters and learn about it and see if it works. If it does, great. If not, great. :) Whether or not you undertake the practice is completely up to you.

Also, there's also no requirement to join a particular kind of Buddhism. There are a few people on here who utilize practices from more than one school or tradition.

It's also very good that you're being investigative. Take your time and understand the basic teachings and explore the traditions. See which one (or ones ;D) work for you. :)

With Metta (Loving-Kindness),

:hands:

FBM
21 Nov 11, 03:07
Hi, David. It looks like everyone is answering your questions, so I'll just pop in and lend my virtual support. Nothing you say in a moment of anger is going to prevent you from following the Buddha's teachings. :peace:

Karma
21 Nov 11, 12:34
There are lots of free talks at Audio Dharma, many by Gil Fronsdal. He is my favourite teacher and has a soft and gentle voice. Gil's tradition is Theravada vipassana but he also used to be a Zen Priest. I've found these talks very helpful. here is the link ,http://www.audiodharma.org/

soundtrack
21 Nov 11, 15:53
I will look up, "The Way It Is" by Ajahn Sumedho. Thank you Kaarine for telling me about it.
Anything by Sumedho should be good and easy for you to understand. This wonderful monk is not included in my list of "those who write books but don't understand Buddhism" I mentioned in your first thread. :up2:

Sumedho has several books available for free online, by the way.

I strongly suggest you check out Thanissaro Bhikkhu's short essay Life Isn't Just Suffering (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/lifeisnt.html). Thanissaro is an American monk.

*** If you read that piece you'll know more about Buddhism than the majority of Buddhists out there. ***


A preview:


You've probably heard the rumor that "Life is suffering" is Buddhism's first principle, the Buddha's first noble truth. It's a rumor with good credentials, spread by well-respected academics and Dharma teachers alike, but a rumor nonetheless.

:hands:

*Admin note for the marked sentence*

We are in the Buddhism for Beginners forum and this is an opinion, not a fact, and should be expressed as such. Thanks

srivijaya
21 Nov 11, 16:12
Nice article soundtrack. Some very good points made.

Aloka
21 Nov 11, 16:23
Anything by Sumedho should be good and easy for you to understand.

I can verify that because I've had personal instruction from Ajahn Sumedho offline :hands:

david002
21 Nov 11, 16:40
I am very appreciative for all of the responses. Yuan, thank you for answering my question about how to become a Buddhist. Kaarine, thank you for your in depth response to my questions. I will definitely look for a book as soon as I can. Also thank you for telling me about your experience with the Pali Teachings. Jsmusipalthinka, Thanks for explaining the Jukai to me. I think I had read something about it possibly before but I didn't remember for sure. FBM, thank you for the support. It helps a lot. Karma, thank you for the link. I will definitely check out that site. soundtrack, thank you for the book suggestions. I will definitely research that. Thank you srivijaya for your advice. Aloka D, Thank you for encouraging me to look up Ajahn Sumedho. I will see if I can find some of his works online.

I really apppreciate everyones advice. I will start learning more about Buddhism today. I will most likely have more questions as I learn about Buddhism.

;D

soundtrack
21 Nov 11, 16:48
Your humility is rare, Dave. :hands:

Aloka
21 Nov 11, 16:54
I really apppreciate everyones advice

Thank you for your kind words David, its good to have you here.

david002
21 Nov 11, 17:20
I'm sorry for my delayed response. I guess I apologize too much.Thank you soundtrack that means a lot. That is probably the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me.

You are very welcome Aloka-D. I am glad to be welcome here.

soundtrack
23 Nov 11, 08:52
If you're still interested in free books by Ajahn Sumedho, Dave, here (http://forestsanghapublications.org/viewAuthor.php?id=9) are some (Thanks Aloka).

You can either download this (http://www.mobipocket.com/en/DownloadSoft/ProductDetailsReader.asp) handy software or install this (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/epubreader/) Firefox add-on. Now you can open EPUB files on your computer and read free books all day! Yay.

:hands:

EagerStudent
23 Nov 11, 16:58
Oh goodness yes of course you are not too bad or too this or too anything to be a follower of Buddhism. And no never think that you are asking too many questions there are no such things. The Buddha even said that friendship is the whole of the spiritual path for without your fellow peers how would you know if your doing something wrong or not?

It's like peer revision in english class. Buddha is very forgiving, he teaches us to forgive and to practice loving kindness even to "bad" or "evil" people. Everything is impermanent nothing is ever the same for even a fraction of a second. In fact you are not the same person, you are different from the person that cursed the Buddha. But if you changed and are asking forgiveness the Buddha would be more then happy to forgive you. I tell you a story, in fact I'll copy and paste the story that I read about someone who spit on the Buddha but later became his disciple.

" The Buddha was sitting under a tree talking to his disciples when a man came and spit on his face. He wiped it off, and he asked the man, “What next? What do you want to say next?” The man was a little puzzled because he himself never expected that when you spit on somebody’s face, he will ask, “What next?” He had no such experience in his past. He had insulted people and they had become angry and they had reacted. Or if they were cowards and weaklings, they had smiled, trying to bribe the man. But Buddha was like neither, he was not angry nor in any way offended, nor in any way cowardly. But just matter-of-factly he said, “What next?” There was no reaction on his part.

Buddha’s disciples became angry, they reacted. His closest disciple, Ananda, said, “This is too much, and we cannot tolerate it. He has to be punished for it. Otherwise everybody will start doing things like this.”

Buddha said, “You keep silent. He has not offended me, but you are offending me. He is new, a stranger. He must have heard from people something about me, that this man is an atheist, a dangerous man who is throwing people off their track, a revolutionary, a corrupter. And he may have formed some idea, a notion of me. He has not spit on me, he has spit on his notion. He has spit on his idea of me because he does not know me at all, so how can he spit on me?

“If you think on it deeply,” Buddha said, “he has spit on his own mind. I am not part of it, and I can see that this poor man must have something else to say because this is a way of saying something. Spitting is a way of saying something. There are moments when you feel that language is impotent: in deep love, in intense anger, in hate, in prayer. There are intense moments when language is impotent. Then you have to do something. When you are angry, intensely angry, you hit the person, you spit on him, you are saying something. I can understand him. He must have something more to say, that’s why I’m asking, “What next?”

The man was even more puzzled! And Buddha said to his disciples, “I am more offended by you because you know me, and you have lived for years with me, and still you react.”

Puzzled, confused, the man returned home. He could not sleep the whole night. When you see a Buddha, it is difficult, impossible to sleep again the way you used to sleep before. Again and again he was haunted by the experience. He could not explain it to himself, what had happened. He was trembling all over and perspiring. He had never come across such a man; he shattered his whole mind and his whole pattern, his whole past.

The next morning he was back there. He threw himself at Buddha’s feet. Buddha asked him again, “What next? This, too, is a way of saying something that cannot be said in language. When you come and touch my feet, you are saying something that cannot be said ordinarily, for which all words are a little narrow; it cannot be contained in them.” Buddha said, “Look, Ananda, this man is again here, he is saying something. This man is a man of deep emotions.”

The man looked at Buddha and said, “Forgive me for what I did yesterday.”

Buddha said, “Forgive? But I am not the same man to whom you did it. The Ganges goes on flowing, it is never the same Ganges again. Every man is a river. The man you spit upon is no longer here. I look just like him, but I am not the same, much has happened in these twenty-four hours! The river has flowed so much. So I cannot forgive you because I have no grudge against you.”

“And you also are new. I can see you are not the same man who came yesterday because that man was angry and he spit, whereas you are bowing at my feet, touching my feet. How can you be the same man? You are not the same man, so let us forget about it. Those two people, the man who spit and the man on whom he spit, both are no more. Come closer. Let us talk of something else.” See? As long as you can change for the better then what you were in the past doesn't matter. :D I hope that I helped you.

david002
23 Nov 11, 16:59
Thanks soundtrack. I will make use of that. I appreciate the help.;D

Aloka
23 Nov 11, 17:13
I'll copy and paste the story that I read about someone who spit on the Buddha but later became his disciple

Hi EagerStudent, welcome to the group.

As we are a learning community, can I ask that if you use quotes in your posts, that you also always give the source of the quote and also a URL link please.

Many thanks

Aloka-D ;D

david002
23 Nov 11, 17:56
EagerStudent, Thank you for the post. That helped me a whole lot. ;D

EagerStudent
24 Nov 11, 18:57
Whoops sorry about that Aloka-D I will do it right the next time, it's nice to be welcome thank you all very very much. And not a problem at all David :)

ngodngam
15 Dec 11, 16:09
Thinking bad words happens to many people, not only you. I had this problem as well in the past.

1. The Bhudda practiced for a very long long time in the wheel of rebirth to be able to teach people to get out of this wheel of rebirth. He would not be angry on you at all. On the contrary, he would expect you (in fact, everyone) to follow him to get out of the wheel of rebirth.

2. Although he would not be angry on you, you are suffered already for your past thinking. So, please stay at present, whatever happened in the past, you have to let it go. It you rethink about it, your mind will repeat the similar feeling, and you will be suffered again and again. Not because of your past thinking, but because of thinking at present.

3. The bad words in your mind were not intentionally created by youself. But they occurred by themselves, and you cannot prohibit them. This is because your mind is not-self. If your mind is self, you will be able to order it to think only good words. But in reality you cannot do so. So, if this happens again, you should understand that those words come by their own, you do not say or support them. Although your mind says them, you do not say or support them. (because your mind is not self.) Then, you will gain more knowledge by seeing the truth of your mind that your mind is not permanent, and not-self. It changes by itssefl and you cannot control it.

4. Although we cannot control our mind, we can train it. If we always think and say good words, our mind will get familiar with them, and will rarely think about bad words. On the contrary, if we always think and say bad words, our mind will get familiar with them, and will easily think about bad words.