Vow to liberate sentient beings -- can it actually be fulfilled? [Archive]

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Lazy Eye

19 Aug 11, 17:12

srivijaya

19 Aug 11, 20:42

So what does it mean to cultivate an aspiration of this kind?

Hi Lazy,
I have no idea what it means, as I've never been able to generate anything so vast as that. I just take it a step at a time; try not to do harm to living beings and have some kind of compassion. I know this is nothing special when compared to such high ideals but it's at least something I can work with and understand.
:hands:

Esho

19 Aug 11, 23:12

Hi Lazy,

Not all Zen schools are around such issue so vehemently. Indeed, the Ten Ox-herding teaching states that once one has awakened or is in awakening or experience awakening moments, its understanding goes something like this:

10. In the World

Barefooted and naked of breast, I mingle with the people of the world.
My clothes are ragged and dust-laden, and I am ever blissful.

I use no magic to extend my life;
Now, before me, the dead trees become alive.

Comment: Inside my gate, a thousand sages do not know me. The beauty of my garden is invisible. Why should one search for the footprints of the patriarchs? I go to the market place with my wine bottle and return home with my staff. I visit the wine shop and the market, and everyone I look upon becomes enlightened.

Zen Flesh, Zen Bones

A Zen story can give some light into the attitude of Zen toward such issue:

During the Kmamkura period, Shinkan studied Tendai six years and then studied Zen seven years; then he went to China and contemplated Zen for thirteen years more.

When he returned to Japan many desired to interview him and asked obscure questions. But when Shinkan received visitors, which was infrequently, he seldom answered their questions.

One day a fifty year old student of enlightenment said to Shinkan: "I have studied the Tendai School of thought since I was a little boy, but one thing in it I can not understand. Tendai claims that even the grass and trees will become enlightened. To me this seems very strange."

"Of what use is it to discuss how grass and trees becomes enlightened?" asked Shinkan. "The question is how you yourself can become so. Did you ever consider that?"

"I never thought of it in that way," marveled the old man.

"Then go home and think it over," finished Shinkan.

Zen Flesh, Zen Bones

;D

Esho

19 Aug 11, 23:28

Hi Lazy,
I have no idea what it means, as I've never been able to generate anything so vast as that. I just take it a step at a time; try not to do harm to living beings and have some kind of compassion. I know this is nothing special when compared to such high ideals but it's at least something I can work with and understand.
:hands:

At least for now, seems as the right attitude for me too, Kris.

:hands:

plwk

20 Aug 11, 01:31

http://cttbusa.org/6patriarch/6patriarch12.asp
Sutra:
Good Knowing Advisors, as you have repented and reformed, I will now teach you to make the four all-encompassing vows.
I vow to take across the limitless living beings of my own mind.
I vow to cut off the inexhaustible afflictions of my own mind.
I vow to study the immeasurable Dharma-doors of my own nature.
I vow to realize the supreme Buddha Way of my own nature.

Good Knowing Advisors, did all of you not just say, ‘I vow to take across the limitless living beings’? What does it mean? You should remember that it is not Hui Neng who takes them across. Good Knowing Advisors, the ‘living beings’ within your mind are deviant and confused thoughts, deceitful and false thoughts, unwholesome thoughts, jealous thoughts, vicious thoughts: all these thoughts are ‘living beings.’ The self-nature of each one of them must take itself across. That is true crossing over.”

Commentary:
You must vow to take across the beings within your own heart, to cut off the afflictions, and to study the Dharma-doors. There is nothing higher than Buddhahood: vow to realize it.

Living beings are incalculably numerous, but you yourself must vow to save them, for it is not the Sixth Patriarch who takes them across. These good and bad living beings exist within your own mind. The good ones seek unsurpassed Bodhi and produce the Bodhi mind, while the bad ones must still be saved. Think it over and ask yourself, “Have I saved the living beings within my own mind? Am I proper in attitude and honorable in conduct or am I jealous, obstructive, and otherwise ignorant?”

The living beings within the mind are limitless, but our first concerns are the deviant and confused living beings, which should be taken across by means of proper wisdom; the deceitful and false living beings, which should be taken across by means of humility, and the unwholesome living beings, which should be taken across by means of goodness. If you find that you have these faults, vow to correct them, for if you do not they will drag you into the inescapable and endless misery of hell.

Respect takes jealous living beings across. Although Bodhiruci was a Dharma Master, he envied other Dharma Masters and viciously tried to poison Bodhidharma. Such thoughts are living beings and you are making a serious mistake if you do not take them across.

Sutra:
What is meant by ‘the self nature taking itself across’? It is to take across by means of right views the living beings of deviant views, affliction, and delusion within your own mind. Once you have right views, use Prajna Wisdom to destroy the living beings of delusion, confusion, and falsehood. Each one takes itself across. Enlightenment takes confusion across, wisdom takes delusion across, goodness takes evil across. Such crossing over is a true crossing.

Further, ‘I vow to cut off the inexhaustible afflictions.’ That is to use the Prajna Wisdom of your own self-nature to cast out the vain and false thoughts in your mind.

Further, ‘I vow to study the immeasurable Dharma-doors.’ You must see your own nature and always practice the right Dharma. That is true study.

Further, ‘I vow to realize the supreme Buddha way,’ and with humble mind to always practice the true and the proper. Separate yourself from both confusion and enlightenment, and always give rise to Prajna. When you cast out the true and the false, you see your nature and realize the Buddha-way at the very moment it is spoken of. Always be mindful; cultivate the Dharma that possesses the power of this vow.”

Commentary:
Use Prajna wisdom to destroy the living beings of delusion, confusion, and falsehood. Beat them to death! You ask, “But isn’t that a violation of the precept against killing?” Here you may violate the precept, just a bit. You are indeed hard to teach! When you break precepts, you don’t worry about breaking them, but when you do not break precepts you worry about breaking them.

Transform the bad beings within your nature so that the good ones may dwell undisturbed and at peace. You may kill them; you may beat them to death. Such crossing over is true crossing over.

Afflictions never end, but you must cut them off. Actually, “cut off” means “change.” Change your afflictions into Bodhi. Afflictions are actually Bodhi, and if you cut off all afflictions you cut off Bodhi. If you cut off all afflictions you would become a Buddha, and you don’t want to do that just yet, do you? So leave just a hair’s worth of afflictions and transform the rest into Bodhi. Use genuine Prajna wisdom to get rid of affliction and cast out all vain, false, deviant, and ignorant thoughts.

Recognize your mind, see your original nature, and always practice the right Dharma, not the wrong. You may study the Buddhadharma in detail, but if you do not practice it, it is not true study. True Buddhist studies includes both study and practice. For example, people who used to smoke, drink, and take drugs no longer do so once they have studied the Buddhadharma. They do not even eat meat! Those who were lazy and did nothing but sleep from morning to night and from night to morning, now read and translate Sutras, listen to lectures, and meditate vigorously without a thought of sleeping. If this were not true study, why would they choose to work so hard?

All living beings can cross themselves over. No one needs to take them across.
The four vows in the text above are the basic vows which all Bodhisattvas should make.
The Four Great Vows (Page 20) (http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ncf/ncf27.pdf)
The Four Great Vows: Countering Indifference (http://onedharmanashville.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/the-four-great-vows-countering-indifference/)
The Four Great Vows (http://tw.tzuchi.org/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=620%3Athe-four-great-vows&catid=82%3Amiscellaneous&Itemid=199&lang=en)
The Importance of Our Vows (http://www.ctzen.org/BuddhaJewel/en/dharma-gems/dharma-lectures/grand-master-wei-chuh/the-importance-of-our-vows/)
Bodhisattva Vows and the Four Noble Truths (http://www.intrex.net/chzg/Fronsdal.htm)

http://cttbusa.org/vajra/vajrasutra.asp
The Buddha told Subhuti,
“All Bodhisattvas, Mahasattvas, should thus subdue their minds with the vow,
‘I must cause all living beings – those born from eggs, born from wombs, born from moisture, born by transformation; those with form, those without form, those with thought, those without thought, those not totally with thought, and those not totally without thought – to enter nirvana without residue and be taken across to extinction.’
Yet of the immeasurable, boundless numbers of living beings thus taken across to extinction, there is actually no living being taken across to extinction. And why?
Subhuti, if a Bodhisattva has a mark of self, a mark of others, a mark of living beings, or a mark of a life, he is not a Bodhisattva.

“Moreover, Subhuti, as to the act of giving, a Bodhisattva should not dwell anywhere when he gives. He should not dwell in forms when he gives, nor should he dwell in sounds, smells, tastes, tangible objects, or mental constructs when he gives. Subhuti, a Bodhisattva should give thus: he should not dwell in marks.
And why? If a Bodhisattva does not dwell in marks when he gives, his blessings and virtues are immeasurable.

The Buddha told Subhuti,
“A good man, or good woman, who has resolved his mind on anuttara samyak sambodhi should think thus:
‘I should take all living beings across to extinction. Yet when all living beings have been taken across to extinction, there actually is not a single living being who has been taken across to extinction.’
And why? Subhuti, if a Bodhisattva has a mark of self, a mark of others, a mark of living beings, or a mark of a life, then he is not a Bodhisattva.
For what reason? Subhuti, actually there is no dharma of resolving the mind on anuttara samyak sambodhi.

“Subhuti, a Bodhisattva is also thus.
If he were to say, ‘I should take measureless living beings across to extinction,’ then he would not be called a Bodhisattva.
And why? Subhuti, there actually is no dharma called a Bodhisattva.
For that reason the Buddha spoke of the dharma as being devoid of self, devoid of others, devoid of living beings, and devoid of a life.

“Subhuti, what do you think?
You should not maintain that the Tathagata has this thought: ‘I shall take living beings across.’ Subhuti, do not have that thought. And why? There actually are no living beings taken across by the Tathagata.
If there were living beings taken across by the Tathagata, then the Tathagata would have the existence of a self, of others, of living beings, and of a life.
Subhuti, the existence of a self spoken of by the Tathagata is no existence of a self, but common people take it as the existence of a self. Subhuti, common people are spoken of by the Tathagata as no common people, therefore they are called common people.

hajurba

20 Aug 11, 01:46

In Zen, there are the Four Great Vows:

Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to liberate them.
Delusions are inexhaustible, I vow to end them.
Dharma Gates are boundless, I vow to open them.
The Enlightened Way is unsurpassable, I vow to embody it.

This sounds great, but practically speaking what do they mean? How do we apply them in daily life and practice? When you recite them (if you recite them) do you take really take them to heart, and how?

It seems to me there is something paradoxical about the vows -- taken at face value, it's logically impossible to achieve them. If sentient beings are truly "numberless" then the bodhisattva's work is never done and he or she will not attain buddhahood. Not attaining buddhahood means there is still a shred of delusion, so the second vow is not achieved either. And so on.

Moreover, if we go by the Diamond Sutra, the bodhisattva should abandon notions of self and other and the idea that there is anyone to save.

So what does it mean to cultivate an aspiration of this kind?

Simplicity is the key!

1.) Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to liberate them: Liberation starts by one self. Liberate yourself and through this act of liberation comes clarity about how to liberate your family...your friends...etc. It is called snowball effect in normal terms.

2.) Delusions are inexhaustible, I vow to end them: Once one is free of delusions this will be noticed by others and they may ask his/her guidance how to achieve it.

3.) Dharma Gates are boundless, I vow to open them: Once one manages to open a single tiny gate successfully he/she discovers the mechanism for others to open their nearest gate. The snowball effect could be enormous since we are not alone on this planet.

4.) The Enlightened Way is unsurpassable, I vow to embody it: There is no better way to follow and one can relay on it...and all those who start to go that way can relay on it. Others have gone it for centuries and so there is hope for all beings.

And as an extra: Inside a Sangha grass is enlightened, and flowers and trees and all sentient beings are in the sun of enlightenment...its visible for the true followers. The reason? All that is... it is already enlightened and contains Buddha. Only humans seem to shield their eyes from it due to their attachment to their ego and expectations etc. etc. :hands:

Element

20 Aug 11, 03:47

Moreover, if we go by the Diamond Sutra, the bodhisattva should abandon notions of self and other and the idea that there is anyone to save.
hi Lazy

my personal view is other beings can only be liberated via loving-kindness

this requires the practitoner (eg. Dalai Lama, Ajahn Brahm, etc) developing exceptional metta paramita

with metta

:hands: