Nichiren

[Jupitermadcat]

Just trying to gain some insight on various Buddhist sects/Schools What are your thoughts on Nichiren Buddhism i know they do some kind of chanting and i heard about soka gakki? any thoughts ;D

[plwk]

http://www.saieditor.com/img/nichiren-seated.jpg
The Lineage of Nichiren Buddhism (http://www.nichiren-shu.org/boston/pages/lineage.htm)
The Major Writings of Nichiren Daishonin (http://nichiren.info/gosho.html)
Nichiren Issues (http://www.nichiren.com/)
The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra (http://nichiren.info/gosho/DaimokuLotusSutra.htm)
The Gohonzon (http://nichiren.info/Gohonzon/index.html)
The Lotus Sutra (http://www.mandala.hr/3/lotus-sutra.html)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TIV-Zu2ZCQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB3fTV74yco

[plwk]

Two of my fav Daimoku chants...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx2kZjPoc2o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HF22rzF2zk&feature=related

Soka Gakkai? That's another world by itself...maybe someone will assist you on that...

[Lazy Eye]

Hi Jupitermadcat,

Here are links to some Nichiren-specific discusssion boards/groups where you can get a first-hand perspective:

http://nichirenhokkekyoshu.org/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiUnofficial/
http://ichinensanzen.org/forum/index.php

Be aware that Soka Gakkai (a lay movement within Nichiren) is controversial and some consider it a cult.

[Jupitermadcat]

Whoa thank young fowr the info. is this the general consenses or from a few former members

[Lazy Eye]

SGI has raised some red flags among anti-cult awareness organizations (such as the Rick Ross Institute) and former members have complained about pressure and psychological manipulation. Some lawsuits were filed related to alleged wrongdoing.

I know little about SGI and am not in a position to pass judgment one way or the other.

[Esho]

When I lived in Mérida, the very first approach I had with a Buddhist Sangha was the Nichiren one and the only thing I can say is that the whole people I met there become wonderfull friends for a long time until I had to live that city.

:hands:

[Jupitermadcat]

Who is Rick Ross?

[Lazy Eye]

Anti-cult activist. Here are his Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Ross_%28consultant%29) and website (www.rickross.com/).

[stuka]

Nichiren holds a much later and dubious tome known as the "lotus sutra" to be the "highest teaching" in Buddhism, and considers all other sects or teachings in Buddhism to be vastly inferio

I once was in a discussion which included a nichiren adherent who called the teachings of the Buddha "dead bones".

[srivijaya]

I was approached by a group of them distributing leaflets a few years ago. When they found out that I knew a bit about Buddhism, they lost all interest in talking to me. I can't imagine why ;)

[Lazy Eye]

I once was in a discussion which included a nichiren adherent who called the teachings of the Buddha "dead bones".

I've heard similar stories -- Pali Canon being dismissed as "ancient Buddhism" and so on.

[stuka]

My criticism lies more in the insistence of this tome as the "highest teaching" and the disdain for anything else, including the words of the Buddha.

[tjampel]

Just trying to gain some insight on various Buddhist sects/Schools What are your thoughts on Nichiren Buddhism i know they do some kind of chanting and i heard about soka gakki? any thoughts ;D

Soka Gakki International is a Japanese-founded lay group formed in Japan in the early 20th century (1930). They study and practice the teachings of Nichirin; there practice includes reading from the Lotus Sutra and chanting its title repeatedly---the very ubiquitous "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo". Its activities have been quite political, over the years, in Japan, and have included involvement in forming political parties. To their credit they took a very anti-militaristic stand in Japan, and their leaders were jailed for it during the 2nd World War. They have supported liberal policies towards the poor and oppressed elements of Japanese society. I commend them for this.

The leaders of SGI were excommunicated from the official Nichirin Religious organization in the 90s and the group lost its lay affiliate status with Nichiren Shōshū.

Today they are still very active in Japanese politics. They support New Komeito, which emphasizes good governance.

This is not a group I'd get involved with; having said that I think that their political involvements have tended to be with organizations I might have sympathy with were I a Japanese citizen living there. They are anti-militarist and anti-corruption.

I would never reduce my practice of Buddhist to one that I think is pretty close to, if not in fact, Faith Based. What I mean by Faith Based is that it's faith in an object itself rather than faith in the veracity of the teachings and asociated practices based on learning, contemplating and meditating on them. Here it's a faith in the power of the invocation of the title of a single sutra, based on the reasoning of Nichirin. However, I am not sure that those who follow this practice actually study Nichirin's reasoning process and are able to gain a deep understanding of it and determine that it must be true, and gain conviction that way. I am sure that long-time practitioners can tell me about their realizations and deepening of understanding of something or other; however, I am quite happy referring back to the good old (yes, ancient can be just fine with me) Pali Canons, which I, unlike SGI, apparently, see as authoritative if sometimes subject to interpretation. Specifically the Buddha instructed us to first listen to and contemplate his teachings and evaluate them as to whether they made sense; then, if they agreed that the teachings correctly set forth the problem of suffering, it causes, its cessation, and the method leading to that cessation, learn to meditate, in order to enter meditative concentrations where they could examine the nature of mind (and phenomena, if one is a Mahayanist) on the most subtle levels.

It doesn't appear to me that Nichirin agreed with this approach. So I must part ways with him. It also seems that the basis for his teachings was that the dharma has degenerated too far for meditation and serious study of the Sutras to do any good; that chanting a verse and calling upon a Bodhisattva to keep his promise of insuring our rebirth in the Western Paradise (for those who recite even one line of the Lotus) was the last and best resort. I don't buy that. But, if you do, I hear they're a friendly lot and quite happy to pass out literature to you (unlike most other Buddhist orgs or traditions). One other things that bugs me about Nichirin disciples is that they're quite critical of other Buddhist traditions.

[Jupitermadcat]

Are all Nichiren Practitioners critical of other traditions or is it just Soka Gakkai.

[Lazy Eye]

To their credit they took a very anti-militaristic stand in Japan, and their leaders were jailed for it during the 2nd World War. They have supported liberal policies towards the poor and oppressed elements of Japanese society. I commend them for this.

That is indeed commendable. It's a shame that certain other Buddhist schools in Japan -- i.e. Zen -- did not follow suit.


I would never reduce my practice of Buddhist to one that I think is pretty close to, if not in fact, Faith Based. What I mean by Faith Based is that it's faith in an object itself rather than faith in the veracity of the teachings and asociated practices based on learning, contemplating and meditating on them. Here it's a faith in the power of the invocation of the title of a single sutra, based on the reasoning of Nichirin. However, I am not sure that those who follow this practice actually study Nichirin's reasoning process and are able to gain a deep understanding of it and determine that it must be true, and gain conviction that way. I am sure that long-time practitioners can tell me about their realizations and deepening of understanding of something or other; however, I am quite happy referring back to the good old (yes, ancient can be just fine with me) Pali Canons, which I, unlike SGI, apparently, see as authoritative if sometimes subject to interpretation. Specifically the Buddha instructed us to first listen to and contemplate his teachings and evaluate them as to whether they made sense; then, if they agreed that the teachings correctly set forth the problem of suffering, it causes, its cessation, and the method leading to that cessation, learn to meditate, in order to enter meditative concentrations where they could examine the nature of mind (and phenomena, if one is a Mahayanist) on the most subtle levels.

It doesn't appear to me that Nichirin agreed with this approach. So I must part ways with him. It also seems that the basis for his teachings was that the dharma has degenerated too far for meditation and serious study of the Sutras to do any good; that chanting a verse and calling upon a Bodhisattva to keep his promise of insuring our rebirth in the Western Paradise (for those who recite even one line of the Lotus) was the last and best resort.

I've never found the mappo argument all that convincing, personally. For me "faith-based Buddhism" is better understood as a path for those whose circumstances and capacities require it.

Nichiren seems to have taken a particularly adversarial approach by insisting not only that his way is justified, but that it's the only way -- i.e. practitioners of all other schools are misguided and inevitably bound for the hell realms. In short, he took the sectarianism which we see often in Mahayana (including in parts of the Lotus Sutra) to an extreme...at least that's how it looks to me.

[Lazy Eye]

Are all Nichiren Practitioners critical of other traditions or is it just Soka Gakkai.

I believe it goes back to Nichiren himself. The overall climate in Japanese Buddhism was contentious, with strong political overtones, and Nichiren at one point was threatened with execution. The various schools were not sparing in their mutual condemnation, and Nichiren was a very tough personality to say the least.

[Human_Revolution]

Have only just seen this topic.

I am a member of the SGI-UK (Soka Gakkai International - United Kingdom).

I would be happy to try and answer any questions (to the best of my abilities).

[Aloka]

Hi H_R, its really nice to see you again ! ;D

[Human_Revolution]

Hello Aloka, as per usual it has been a while!

Hope all is well with you! x

[Lazy Eye]

Have only just seen this topic.

I am a member of the SGI-UK (Soka Gakkai International - United Kingdom).

I would be happy to try and answer any questions (to the best of my abilities).


Hi, H_R,

Thanks for posting here! Since we have been discussing Nichiren and SGI at some length, it's good to have someone on the thread who is an actual practitioner in this tradition.

I have a few questions for you, mainly drawn from the discussion so far.

1. Is faith the main element in your practice? If so, how did you develop this faith? Do you feel it has been confirmed by experience? What have you found beneficial about daimoku, and about your practice in general?

2. Are Nichiren and SGI as sectarian as some (including me in the posts above) make it out to be? How do you assess Nichiren's relationship to other Mahayana schools? What about nikaya Buddhism, i.e. the Pali Canon?

3. What drew you to Nichiren in general and SGI in particular?

Thanks,

Rob ("Lazy Eye")

[Jupitermadcat]

Hi, H_R,

Thanks for posting here! Since we have been discurxssing Nichiren and SGI at some length, it's good to have someone on the thread who is an actual practitioner in this tradition.

I have a few questions for you, mainly drawn from the discussion so far.

1. Is faith the main element in your practice? If so, how did you develop this faith? Do you feel it has been confirmed by experience? What have you found beneficial about daimoku, and about your practice in general?

2. Are Nichiren and SGI as sectarian as some (including me in the posts above) make it out to be? How do you assess Nichiren's relationship to other Mahayana schools? What about nikaya Buddhism, i.e. the Pali Canon?

3. What drew you to Nichiren in general and SGI in particular?

Thanks,

Rob ("Lazy Eye")


I'm Curious as well.

[Jupitermadcat]

I seen the Rick Ross website i don't know i mean i did see some well known cults on his website but the Amish??? and UFO belivers lol give me a break....

[tjampel]

You want proof about the Amish?

Here's your proof!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg

[Jupitermadcat]

Lol

[jenrain]

Hi! I am new to this site, found it on facebook while looking at other Buddhist's sites. About two years ago I was introduced to Mahayana Buddhism, namely the S.G.I, and began chanting. I have had my Gohonzon for almost 2 years. I am disappointed in the practice because it is hard for me to find answers to some of my questions and I have also found that the leadership is big on saying how they are supposed to act, but are not good at following through on any of it. I am sure this might be an experience that only I have had with them. I feel as someone new to the practice, I was not given what I needed to follow the practice.

Anyways, my experience with the chanting has been very positive.

From my understanding of the practice, the Gohonzon is not an object of worship, it is a representation of me. It is a mirror of me and my life. It has Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo written down the middle of the scroll, and the negative deities and positive deities on either side. Not to be worshiped but to be recognized in one's own self to overcome them and lead a happy life.

Chanting the phrase is meant to change your Karma and put your life on the path to become a Boddhisatva, and it is believed everyone can become enlightened and they don't need anyone to be a go between to do that as long as they chant and say the Lotus Sutra.

Okay, so that is my understanding. I am confused right now and am thinking of trying to branch out and try other sects of Buddhism since the practice of the S.G.I. is not working out for me but I love the chanting and am really interested in the teaching of the Buddha. If anyone can suggest anything to me I would appreciate it and be open to some suggestions.

Thanx!

[Jupitermadcat]

jenrain, there are other Schools of Nichiren Buddhism you could check out here is a site i found helpful.

http://www.thenichirensite.org

[Lazy Eye]

Hi Jenrain -- welcome to Buddhism without Boundaries! And thanks for sharing your experiences with SGI and Nichiren.

In terms of recommendations, I think the Insight Meditation Society groups are pretty worthwhile. Although they are based in Theravada rather than Mahayana, their approach is generally open and non-sectarian, and they've been known to invite teachers from across the traditions. They have hundreds of dharma talks available for download at www.dharmaseed.org (http://www.dharmaseed.org/). So you could listen to a few and see if it's what you're looking for. My local IMS teacher, Tara Brach (http://tarabrach.com/), also has talks on her website.

Looking specifically at Mahayana, I'd suggest Thich Nhat Hanh or the local Zen center. Dharmaweb (http://www.dharmaweb.org/index.php/Category:World_Buddhist_Directory) has a directory of Buddhist communities in the US and around the world...it should list the main groups in your area. If it were me, I would probably just click on the list for my state, take note of the groups that look worth exploring, and pay them a visit to see if I like the practice and people.

Hope this helps. I'm sure others will have suggestions, and maybe some of our Nichiren members would like to comment as well.

[jenrain]

Thank you so much for all the great suggestions. I will make sure to keep you posted on my quest! :) Any other suggestions and websites are certainly welcome.

[Aloka]

I am confused right now and am thinking of trying to branch out and try other sects of Buddhism since the practice of the S.G.I. is not working out for me but I love the chanting and am really interested in the teaching of the Buddha. If anyone can suggest anything to me I would appreciate it and be open to some suggestions.


Hi jenrain,

If you have questions about Buddhism which are not particularly tradition specific, please feel free to ask them to the rest of the group in our Buddhism for Beginners forum.

Since you are expressing an interest in the teachings of the Buddha I also suggest that you read the short text and listen along by MP3 to 'What is Buddhism?' pinned at the beginning of the topic list in the Buddhism for Beginners forum.

with kind wishes,

Aloka-D ;D

[Jupitermadcat]

Two of my fav Daimoku chants...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx2kZjPoc2o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HF22rzF2zk&feature=related

Soka Gakkai? That's another world by itself...maybe someone will assist you on that...

I really like the 2nd one.:up2:

[dsaly1969]

I practice with Rissho Kosei Kai which is a Lotus Sutra -centered "Ekayana" sect of Buddhism from Japan. RKK is Nichiren influenced but does not consider itself to be a Nichiren school. A practice unique to RKK is hoza which is a form of group counselling which uses the foundational teachings of Buddhism (the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path but also the Six Paramitas) as a framework to examine our everyday life problems and issues through the lens of Buddhadharma.

The main practice of RKK is chanting portions of the chapters of the Lotus Sutra (in RKK we chant these in the language of our understanding - in my case English as the point is to understand what you are chanting - chanting helps you to focus and internalize) as well as O-Daimoku (basically the title of the Lotus Sutra) as well as Ti Sarana (Taking the Three Refuges). We consider ourselves to be mainstream Buddhism and engage in a lot of interfaith and peace activities. Many of us also practice sitting meditation as a part of our daily practice. RKK is very ecumenical and believes that there are "84,000" paths to enlightenment so we do not suffer from the "one true school" syndrome - folks should gravitate to the school of Buddhadharma which resonates best for them.

There are many different sects of Nichiren Buddhism. Soka Gakkai which is the largest Nichiren Buddhist organization and Nichiren Shoshu which is its parent school (although they split in a schism) are very fervent in their particular approach. On the other hand, I have found that some other schools like Nichiren Shu is more mainstream Buddhist in focus and their practice is very similar to RKK with a focus on the Four Noble Truths, Eightfold Path, Six Paramitas, etc..


Here are some links to RKK websites (and I can answer any questions you have on RKK):

http://www.rk-world.org/home.aspx

http://www.buddhistcenter-rkina.org/

[Aloka]

Here are some links to RKK websites (and I can answer any questions you have on RKK):


Hi dsaly1969,

I think its worth noting that the OP #1 of this thread was written more than 6 months ago and Jupitermadcat hasn't been back to the website for 4 months.

with kind wishes

Aloka

[dsaly1969]

Hi dsaly1969,

I think it might be worth noting that the OP #1 of this thread was written more than 6 months ago and Jupitermadcat hasn't been back to the website for over 4 months.

with kind wishes

Aloka

Oops! Sorry! I thought I would just respond to a thread where I thought I could contribute something constructive...

[Aloka]

Oops! Sorry! I thought I would just respond to a thread where I thought I could contribute something constructive...

Please don't apologise ! :hands:


I just thought I'd mention that you may not get any response from him. ;D


.