Shambhala

[Jupitermadcat]

Since i am having no luck with finding a Pure land group there is a Shambhala Group about an hour away , would they be a good starting point for a newbie like myself? and what are your thoughts on Shambhala :peace:

[librogeek]

The Shambhala founder, Chogyam Trungpa came from the Nyingma and Kagyu schools of Tibetan Buddhism. It is a beautiful practice and I think it would be a wonderful place for you to start.

[FBM]

AFAICT, yes.

[librogeek]

Buddhism's version of Scientology. Woo.

Would you mind explaining that please? :dontknow:

Thanks!

[Aloka]

Hi Lu,

Definately no offence to you intended, but it might be connected to the fact that Shambala is a rather controversial organisation with its' King and Queen' of Trungpa's son and his wife (and they also refer to Theravada as 'Hinayana' as I showed in a thread in the Theravada forum).

with metta,

A-D

[librogeek]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Dazz. I haven't had a chance to read posts yet, but I will hop on over to the Theravada forum to read your post there. And of course...no offense taken. ;)

[Aloka]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Dazz. I haven't had a chance to read posts yet, but I will hop on over to the Theravada forum to read your post there. And of course...no offense taken. ;)



Hi Lu,

The thread is called 'What does Hinayana mean'.


:hands:

[librogeek]

;D It looks like a pretty detailed/involved thread, but very informative!


Thank you.

[Jupitermadcat]

Sounds like people bashing others on their veiws on Buddhism, No different then any other Religion.

[stuka]

Would you mind explaining that please? :dontknow:

Thanks!


Means its a cult. You buy a lot of books and get fed a lot of foo foo and none of it has anything to do with what the Buddha taught. But the drunken womanizing megalomaniac gets rich. ;-)

[Aloka]

Means its a cult. You buy a lot of books and get fed a lot of foo foo and none of it has anything to do with what the Buddha taught. But the drunken womanizing megalomaniac gets rich. ;-)

Hi Stuka, Trungpa is dead now and I don't think the same description of drunken womaniser etc can be applied to his son.

Anyway, lets be mindful of the guidelines for this Mahayana/Vajrayana forum and leave it at that, please. My personal opinion is that people should investigate carefully before getting involved with offline groups in general, especially if there's a lot of emphasis on uncritical acceptance of a guru figure.

[Jupitermadcat]

(kŭlt)
n.
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
The followers of such a religion or sect.
A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The object of such devotion.
An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

Wow! is this what Shambhala is?

[Aloka]

I have no idea, Jupiter. Best to research them on the internet and then see for yourself if you're interested, I guess.

[stuka]

Hi Stuka, Trungpa is dead now and I don't think the same description of drunken womaniser etc can be applied to his son.The books of foo-foo remain. ;-)

[stuka]

(kŭlt)
Wow! is this what Shambhala is?

Which one?


I would also suggest careful and objective examination.

[Jupitermadcat]

Examine everything. So if you have many centers and write alot of books you are a cult. Gotcha.

[Aloka]

So if you have many centers and write a lot of books you are a cult. Gotcha.

Lol ! nobody said that, Jupiter ! ....Just investigate sensibly for yourself.

[stuka]

Examine everything. So if you have many centers and write alot of books you are a cult. Gotcha.

It's not the books, JMC, it's the foo-foo in them.

But go ahead, bite the hand that advises you to exercise caution.

Spend a bunch of money and waste a lot of time on Golden Wombat Warrior books and wannabe-feudalism. Knock yourself out...

[Esho]

(kŭlt)
n.

[...]

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The object of such devotion.
An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

[...]




Examine everything. So if you have many centers and write alot of books you are a cult. Gotcha.

I agree to do a careful examination Jupiter. Nothing else than a good advise from some members here.

;D

[Element]

Since i am having no luck with finding a Pure land group there is a Shambhala Group about an hour away , would they be a good starting point for a newbie like myself? and what are your thoughts on Shambhala :peace:
Hi

My thoughts are to visit the Shambala group and see how it resonates with you

Kind regards ;D

[Jupitermadcat]

LOL I know just my wonderful sense of humor at play...

[plwk]

I agree with Element...you have nothing to lose except bus fare lol

I recall four 'controversial groups' which I visited, one of which, the central Buddhist association in my country have issued a collective advisory to all Buddhists to beware and reconsider their dealings with them yet I still went on to see for myself if there was any truth to it. I was there, saw & experienced what I needed to know and never went back but I have no ill-will against any of them, it's their constitutional right to believe and practice what they deem fit, just regarded them as humans engaging in what they saw as meaningful, even though it wasn't my cup of tea. Even back then, when I was a Christian, I had friends from what the mainstream would classify as 'cults'. But I regarded their acquaintance with respect and we respectfully agreed to disagree on doctrinal points. But when it comes to friendship, they deserve my compassion and loving-kindness as much as any sentient being out there. It's that simple.

So yes, as Aloka has advised, much research needs to be done on your part and see if this group is your cup of tea. Opinions of others may have a bearing but it's nothing like your own experience...all the best...

[hajurba]

Means its a cult. You buy a lot of books and get fed a lot of foo foo and none of it has anything to do with what the Buddha taught. But the drunken womanizing megalomaniac gets rich. ;-)

Agree....but we have to see also what really has happened here. The eleventh Trungpa Tulku Choegyam Trungpa Rinpoche was a genuine trained Meditation Master true to his line. He was forced to escape from Tibet in 1958 and he died far to young after establishing the Naropa Institute in Boulder Colorado. He also worked at the same time as Shunryu Suzuki Roshi in the same area. They knew and supported each other in their efforts to bring the Dharma to flourishing in the West. Trungpa Rinpoche passed away in 1987 at age 47...far too young to oversee the development of the work he started. That family members later on seem to follow their own selfish aims is no surprise. It has happened with many institutions the world over. (Not only with Buddhist Organizations)

Important is however, that one sees it and distances him/herself when things turn into the opposite. That spiritual heritages and good works of past teachers are being corrupted later on is something we should watch carefully. Everything changes...remember...everything...all the time.

[Jupitermadcat]

I see it's alot to sort out, is there a sect or group that that is reputable and with good intentions? or should go and try a bunch out.

[Element]

Try...

[FBM]

Being aware of a group's reputation can be helpful, but nothing is an adequate substitute for first-hand experience. Go have a look and listen at whatever looks interesting, I say. I found the Thai forest tradition described in the books to be considerably different from what I found in the forest.

[stuka]

Agree....but we have to see also what really has happened here. The eleventh Trungpa Tulku Choegyam Trungpa Rinpoche was a genuine trained Meditation Master true to his line. He was forced to escape from Tibet in 1958 and he died far to young after establishing the Naropa Institute in Boulder Colorado. He also worked at the same time as Shunryu Suzuki Roshi in the same area. They knew and supported each other in their efforts to bring the Dharma to flourishing in the West. Trungpa Rinpoche passed away in 1987 at age 47...far too young to oversee the development of the work he started. That family members later on seem to follow their own selfish aims is no surprise. It has happened with many institutions the world over. (Not only with Buddhist Organizations)
Important is however, that one sees it and distances him/herself when things turn into the opposite. That spiritual heritages and good works of past teachers are being corrupted later on is something we should watch carefully. Everything changes...remember...everything...all the time.


Um, you left just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle bit out of the story.

[Element]

On September 28, 1986, Trungpa, in failing health due to the auto accident in his youth and to years of heavy alcohol use, suffered cardiac arrest, subsequent to which his condition deteriorated further, requiring intensive care at the hospital, then at his home, and finally back at the hospital in mid-March 1987, where he died on April 4 from the effects of cirrhosis of the liver.
However, I trust much has changed since 1987. The Buddha said: "The past has left us, the future has not arrived. He who sees the present dhammas is unshakeable, immovable, secure."

;D

[hajurba]

Um, you left just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle bit out of the story.

Sure I did...what is the use of dwelling on a fellow man's complete and devastating failure? But if you insist and for the sake of "truth":
Choegyam Trungpa Rinpoche was a man...no enlightened Buddha. His arrival in the west was a personal disaster from the very beginning till his bitter end. The emerging Buddhist sangha in the UK despised him after he married an English woman. As a result he became an alcoholic and had a bad car accident that maimed him for the rest of his life. Leaving England and going West did not cure him. Still so young....he never conquered his addiction. It was the continuing alcohol consume that killed him of course.

I recall his personal sorrows that he developed during his escape from Tibet; which he wrote down in his book "Born in Tibet". Coming out of the mountains of Tibet with his starving party of refugees they passed through a valley where the locals had no drop of water to drink and the only that they could offer them was home brew local beer. He first refused and later that day he realized that he had to accept it to avoid more human losses. It was his first ever encounter with an alcoholic drink and he was full of sorrows about the younger members of his party....that they get addicted. I believe that on that day his entire world turned upside down.
His feeling of guilt and his failure was probably never overcome. Who are we to blame him? We don't.... do we?

[Aloka]

The emerging Buddhist sangha in the UK despised him after he married an English woman. As a result he became an alcoholic and had a bad car accident that maimed him for the rest of his life..

I met this man myself many years ago..and your post reads as if you're blaming others for his addiction and car accident, hajurba.

The truth is a little different from him becoming an alcoholic because others ''despised him after he married an English woman''. He was already taking recreational drugs, drinking heavily and womanising before he married a 16 year old English girl and left the UK to live in the USA. The car crash which left him paralysed down one side also happened before he got married.

[Jupitermadcat]

And what does this mean he didn't accomplish anything important?

[Aloka]

His reputation was hardly a good example for Buddha-Dhamma in the western world and for someone in a position of responsibility . In my opinion much of the truth has been surrounded with a lot of fantasy and romantic twaddle.

Anyway, he's dead now - and those who are interested in the the present day Shambhala organisation should check out the centres carefully for themselves.

Topic closed.