Mahanama Sutta: mind departing the body

[Deshy]

I think you should really investigate the meaning of the word Lie. Because I think you got it a bit muddled.

Ok let see,

lie: To utter falsehood with an intention to deceive

Nope, there are no lies.

[Deshy]

Start a new thread and I will join and answer your question. I promise lill sis!

I would really love a reference... but I think it would be best in another thread.

No it is best in this thread since we are discussing it in this thread and vastly relevant to the topic. What I said was, everywhere I have seen citta mentioned in the sutta pitaka, I have seen them mentioned with reference to a living breathing person. Not as an independent entity existing on its own. One example is the Pabhassara Sutta where the Buddha explains the luminous mind liberated from defilement.

Edit: Same applies to vinnana. ex: Upaya Sutta

[Victorious]

The best translation I can think of is "stays pure" or "stays lofty" in support of Elements translation.

I mean when you throw a bottle of gee into the water it floats. And when it breaks the shards sink but the gee stays afloat. It does not need to rise because it is already at the surface.

In the same way a mind endowed with the mentioned qualities does not need to become something other than it already is. It is already pure and noble.

But I can still not make it fit with the being torn to bits part....


Cheers
Victor

[chaminda1]

Mind is also not a permanent entity. It is a delusion.

[Element]

Mind can be affected by delusion and can be freed from delusion. But mind itself is not delusion. To believe mind is delusion is itself delusion. Mind is neither a permanent entity or an impermanent entity because mind is not an 'entity'. Mind is an element of nature. Buddha explained:

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements."

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements."

AN 1.49-52

The mind is burning, ideas are burning, mind-consciousness is burning, mind-contact is burning, also whatever is felt as pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant that arises with mind-contact for its indispensable condition, that too is burning. Burning with what? Burning with the fire of lust, with the fire of hate, with the fire of delusion.

The Fire Sermon

There are, Ananda, these six elements: the earth element, the water element, the fire element, the air element, the space element, and the consciousness element. When he knows and sees these six elements, a monk can be called skilled in the elements.

MN 115

There are, Ananda, these eighteen elements: the eye element, the form element, the eye-consciousness element; the ear element, the sound element, the ear-consciousness element; the nose element, the odor element, the nose-consciousness element; the tongue element, the flavor element, the tongue-consciousness element; the body element, the tangible element, the body-consciousness element; the mind element, the mind-object element, the mind-consciousness element. When he knows and sees these eighteen elements, a monk can be called skilled in the elements.

MN 115